What is your strongest reason for believing in Christianity?

[bluegreenearth]

What is the single strongest reason that supports your belief in Christianity?

How could we determine if that reason is reliable or unreliable?

Note: Discovering you have an unreliable reason would NOT mean your belief is false; only that you require a more reliable reason to justify a high degree of confidence in the validity of the belief.

[Tcg]

Therefore, if you would like to debate this issue, I would be more than happy to do so, and allow Misses Butterfield to speak for herself, since she is more than qualified to do so.

You made a claim about Ms. Butterfield. One you obviously can't support. Thanks for admitting as much.


Tcg

[Realworldjack]

Therefore, if you would like to debate this issue, I would be more than happy to do so, and allow Misses Butterfield to speak for herself, since she is more than qualified to do so.

You made a claim about Ms. Butterfield. One you obviously can't support. Thanks for admitting as much.


Tcg

The only claim I have made about Misses Butterfield, is that she was extremely opposed to Christianity, only to come to the conclusion on her own, without these things being imposed upon her, that Christianity was true.

The facts, and evidence she uses is, her education, and her understanding of language.

So then what claim did I make "about Mrs Butterfield, that I cannot obviously support"?

What seems sort of strange is the fact that I am more than willing to take up this debate with you on my own, but somehow you seem to be under the impression that I am under the obligation to take up the argument for, Butterfield?

The fact of the matter is, Butterfield has her own arguments, and I will assure you that they are much the same as mine. With this being the case, I would much rather make my own arguments, than to depend upon Butterfield, since I only referred to her in order to demonstrate there would be those who did not have their convictions imposed upon them.

[SallyF]

Therefore, if you would like to debate this issue, I would be more than happy to do so, and allow Misses Butterfield to speak for herself, since she is more than qualified to do so.

You made a claim about Ms. Butterfield. One you obviously can't support. Thanks for admitting as much.


Tcg

I too was hoping for the posting of even one example of the reliability of Ms. Butterfield's reason/s.

Surely that would have taken much less time than writing the reply that was given ?

[Tcg]

Therefore, if you would like to debate this issue, I would be more than happy to do so, and allow Misses Butterfield to speak for herself, since she is more than qualified to do so.

You made a claim about Ms. Butterfield. One you obviously can't support. Thanks for admitting as much.


Tcg

The only claim I have made about Misses Butterfield, is that she was extremely opposed to Christianity, only to come to the conclusion on her own, without these things being imposed upon her, that Christianity was true.

That's not true. Your claim included this, "...her conclusions based upon the facts, and evidence..."

You can't provide the facts and evidence you claim her conclusions were based on and therefore can't support your claim. You presented her as someone you can make claims about, but when asked to support those claims, you can't.


Tcg

[Tcg]

Therefore, if you would like to debate this issue, I would be more than happy to do so, and allow Misses Butterfield to speak for herself, since she is more than qualified to do so.

You made a claim about Ms. Butterfield. One you obviously can't support. Thanks for admitting as much.


Tcg

I too was hoping for the posting of even one example of the reliability of Ms. Butterfield's reason/s.

Surely that would have taken much less time than writing the reply that was given ?

Indeed. The extent of her reasoning, from what I have read on her website, boils down to the fact that she met a nice pastor and his wife. That's evidence that some people are nice.


Tcg

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to post 132 by Tcg]

The facts, and evidence she uses is, her education, along with her understanding of language. If you would like to take this debate up with a tenured professor of English at a well respected university then you are more than welcome to do so.

As I said, she was in the process of writing a book opposing Christianity, and it was during this process as she was doing her research that she began to read the Bible for herself, and came to the conclusion that Christianity was indeed true.

Again, my point in bringing Butterfield into the conversation was to demonstrate that the beliefs she now holds was not imposed upon her in any way, but rather she came to this conclusion on her own, and it was a decision which cost her a tremendous amount.

The Bottom line here is the fact that she has a book on this subject, which sort of demonstrates her reasoning cannot be explained in a single post, and she can, and has spoken for herself.

What seems sort of strange is the fact that I am more than willing to take up the debate with you myself concerning the fact that there are indeed facts, reason, evidence, and logic, to support the claims made by the NT authors, which means I would not have to depend on the arguments of Butterfield, and all you seem to be interested in, is assuming that Butterfield simply made such a life shift, losing all she had, and did so for really no reasons at all.

If this is what you would like to believe, then that is certainly fine by me, but it still does not change the fact that there is certainly reasons, facts, evidence, and logic to back the claims made in the NT.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to post 133 by Tcg]

Instead of me giving Butterfield's reasoning for her, here is a speech she gives herself detailing her reasons.

Indeed. The extent of her reasoning, from what I have read on her website, boils down to the fact that she met a nice pastor and his wife.

Right! So then, Butterfield is a tenured professor of English at the University of Syracuse, the head of the LQBGT at the university, was a lesbian, in a lesbian relationship for years, was in the process of writing a book which opposed Christianity, and makes a decision that cost her all of these things, and she did so all on account of meeting a nice pastor, and his wife?

Well no, I believe it is a whole lot more complicated than that, and I have supplied you with the video where she goes into all that would have been involved.

But again, the reason for bringing her into the conversation was to demonstrate that her beliefs were not imposed upon her in the least, and I will assure you that she is more than capable of speaking for herself.

However, it really doesn't matter, because in the end, there are real facts, real reasons, and real evidence to support the claims made in the NT, and you have no answers for these things, my friend!

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to post 131 by SallyF]

Surely that would have taken much less time than writing the reply that was given ?

This is where you would be, incorrect! Because you see, Butterfield has written books, and gives speeches detailing all that would have been involved in her conversion which actually took a number of years. In other words, she did not simply wake up one day, and was all of a sudden a Christian. Rather, as she describes it, she actually fought against it, and had every reason to do so.

So then, it would have taken much more time to explain her reasoning, than the reply I gave. The problem seems to be, there are far too many who seem to be under the impression that it is all so simple, but the fact of the matter is, it is not that simple at all.

In other words, it is not as simple as many Christians make it out to be when they say things like, "the Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it", but it is also not as simple as many unbelievers seem to believe.

Because you see, the fact of the matter is, there are real facts, real reasons, and real evidence to support the claims made in the NT, and you have no answer for these things.

[bluegreenearth]

With this being said, I have given very good reasons, facts, evidence, and logic to support the claims made by the NT writers, so much so that "bluegreenearth" admits as much.

Actually, you can go back to my original response in this regard and clarify the message I actually conveyed. I never admitted that your reasons, facts, evidence, and logic were very good; only that no amount of such support will ever demonstrate the truth of an unfalsifiable claim. I also mentioned the fact that the least supported unfalsifiable claim has the same chance at being true (or false). However, I understand why you may have unintentionally taken my statement out of context as those sorts of misunderstandings are common among people who submit to confirmation bias.

[Tcg]

Right! So then, Butterfield is a tenured professor of English at the University of Syracuse, the head of the LQBGT at the university, was a lesbian, in a lesbian relationship for years, was in the process of writing a book which opposed Christianity, and makes a decision that cost her all of these things, and she did so all on account of meeting a nice pastor, and his wife?

No need to take my word for it. Let see what her website has to say on the subject:

• "In her third book, The Gospel Comes with a House Key: Practicing Radically Ordinary Hospitality in Our Post-Christian World, Rosaria explores how God used a humble couples simple invitation to dinner to draw her"a radical, committed unbeliever"to himself."
  
  https://rosariabutterfield.com/biography

Here's more from "Christianity Today":

• "With the letter, Ken initiated two years of bringing the church to me, a heathen. Oh, I had seen my share of Bible verses on placards at Gay Pride marches. That Christians who mocked me on Gay Pride Day were happy that I and everyone I loved were going to hell was clear as blue sky. That is not what Ken did. He did not mock. He engaged. So when his letter invited me to get together for dinner, I accepted. My motives at the time were straightforward: Surely this will be good for my research.
  
  Something else happened. Ken and his wife, Floy, and I became friends. They entered my world. They met my friends. We did book exchanges. We talked openly about sexuality and politics. They did not act as if such conversations were polluting them. They did not treat me like a blank slate. When we ate together, Ken prayed in a way I had never heard before. His prayers were intimate. Vulnerable. He repented of his sin in front of me. He thanked God for all things. Ken's God was holy and firm, yet full of mercy. And because Ken and Floy did not invite me to church, I knew it was safe to be friends."
  
  https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/20 ... rsion.html

So, according to Ms. Butterflied herself, it is through this relationship that she was drawn to eventually start attending church and then become a Christian. So much for your influence free conversion claim.


Tcg