God is not more merciful than most humans.

[DanieltheDragon]

In order for humans to forgive we go through an emotional state and move past the slight.

In order for God to forgive he has to have a ritualistic blood sacrifice involving torture of a pure being to forgive even the slightest of offenses.


How can God be all powerful if he is restricted in his ability to forgive?

How can God be all merciful if there is a sacrifice restriction on his mercy?

Why does God have a lower capacity of forgiveness than humans?

[marco]

"You are spot-on. Christians do not have a problem whatsoever on seeing that Jesus is the Light just as He said.

Not many people have a problem understanding what the words mean, Monta. Even non-Christians can see meaning in "I am the way, the truth and the life" but the words, however nicely we sing then, are metaphoric.

Christ is no more a literal way than he is a literal vine.

[Monta]

"You are spot-on. Christians do not have a problem whatsoever on seeing that Jesus is the Light just as He said.

Not many people have a problem understanding what the words mean, Monta. Even non-Christians can see meaning in "I am the way, the truth and the life" but the words, however nicely we sing then, are metaphoric.

Christ is no more a literal way than he is a literal vine.

That's ok. We have to be true to ourselves.
You speak from your reality i speak from mine*

[marco]

That's ok. We have to be true to ourselves.
You speak from your reality I speak from mine*

There is but one reality and we can discern it without the help of a book. Our senses tell us. I know what is meant by the many phrases in the Bible where Christ says he is X and does not intend us to think he really is X. This does not affect reality, thankfully.

But I suppose we are a long way from considering whether God is more merciful than humans. In this respect, reality doesn't help us at all.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 143 by marco]


"But I suppose we are a long way from considering whether God is more merciful than humans. In this respect, reality doesn't help us at all."

Well. if in this reality God is no more merciful than we are,
we, to put it bluntly, are stuffed.

[marco]

[Replying to post 143 by marco]


"But I suppose we are a long way from considering whether God is more merciful than humans. In this respect, reality doesn't help us at all."

Well. if in this reality God is no more merciful than we are,
we, to put it bluntly, are stuffed.

His mercy ranges from total indulgence to brutality depending on which version you listen to. Some Christians go along with Muslims and see God as a being who burns unbelievers - for ever. But we also have people who see God as a dispenser of goodness, beauty and mercy. I have no personal contact with either being. If I am to judge by his treatment of Lot's wife, for idle curiosity, then I shudder to think what he can do.

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]

As you can see from many posts already, what one person perceives as 'right' or 'just' another might not. Religion and belief are funny that way - not requiring any facts or data only wishes and emotions of people to survive.
Beyond that, the whole 'blood sacrifice' concept of the OT and even somewhat the NT is very trite, brutal and what one would expect from a savage, jungle deity.
It shouldn't be surprising in that most, it not all gods, are created based on mankind's desire, needs and in their own image (ironic that we are said to be created in God's image when it seems the other way around, no?).

For sure some people are just terrible. As are many gods - maybe ever God.
But some are also wonderful - just sometimes they have bad days.

I wouldn't hold God to man's standards though - you'll bound to be disappointed in all directions.

We'd be better off to realize out own potential and try to better it on our own and not on a brutal, jungle deity that rejoices in the smell of blood from living things.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 146 by Youkilledkenny]


"We'd be better off to realize out own potential and try to better it on our own and not on a brutal, jungle deity that rejoices in the smell of blood from living things."

Well.. you've read a book and it said things in a way out rational mind does not approve. That's a good sign.
The next step is is that if there is a God He can be nothing less than than perfect goodness, perfect truth, etc etc.. all perfect beyond our concept of perfection.

Next step, its our job to find Him*)
Please drop in and tell us....

[Justin108]

It's not a matter of making "sin inheritable", God in his infinite wisdom chose to create a physical universe of cause and effect.

Yes, and God chose to include inheritable sin as part of this cause-and-effect relationship. He did not have to but he chose to. It was perfectly in God's control. He chose to design a universe where children suffer for the sins of Adam and Eve. God chose to design an unjust universe

Our phyiscal universe is governed by laws

Yes, and God made these laws. He did not have to, but he did. Why?

these render life both possible and pleasurable.

Are you suggesting that without inheritable sin, life would be neither possible nor pleasurable?

Humans were designed to procreate. In this Mendels laws of genetics comes into play, this is the law that demonstrates that there are inherent species limitations imposed by the genetic makeup of all living things.

- So... sin is somehow a physical gene that can be found in our DNA...?
- Assuming this absurd pseudoscience for a minute... God could easily have excluded sin as an inheritable trait. Not everything is inheritable.
- If Medel's laws of genetics are to blame for the inheritable nature of sin... then you have no clue about how genetics work. Our behavior cannot somehow change our genes. If Adam was sinless, then sinned by eating the fruit, this would not suddenly change his genes. That's not how genetics works... at all.
- If I killed someone in my life and had a kid, will that kid be born a murderer? Of course not. So why are Adam's children born as sinners?
- Citing Mendel to support your notion that sin is somehow an inheritable genetic trait demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of how genetics works. And even if it worked as absurdly as you seem to suggest it does, God could still have mended our biological systems to not have this happen. God has full control

It is essentially that which ensures that humans give birth to other humans.

There is nothing "essential" to God. God can do what he wants with his designs. He can design a biological system that allows for humans to procreate without making sin inheritable.

How emotionally destabalizing distressing and ultimately horrirfic would it be if there was a 50% chance a woman give to a giraffe? Or a crocodile?

Are you seriously suggesting that if sin was not inheritable, people would start giving birth to giraffes...?

The principle of inheritance is simply a feature of the living world

- Again, not everything is inheritable. God could easily have excluded sin from the list of inheritable traits while leaving everything else as it is.
- Making sin inheritable implies that our actions (sinning) somehow alters our DNA. That is not how genetics works...

When Adam sinned they made a decision (as the family head) for himself and his children.

- Why would God give Adam this power? Why would God allow Adam to destroy the lives of the billions of people that would come after him? Even worse is the fact that God knew Adam would do this.
- If Obama gave nuclear weapons to ISIS, would Obama be to blame for what ISIS does with this power? Most certainly. That's essentially what God did: he gave Adam the power to destroy the lives of billions of people, knowing that Adam will do exactly that. God is either incompetent or unjust

It was a bad decision but He had the right to do so.

So God... a perfect entity... made a bad decision?

Before Jehovah could legitimately "override" that decision there were issues that had to be settled.

Your Jehovah seems very limited in his omnipotence...

If God had spared the human race the consequences of Adam's actions there would have been relief but it would only have been temporary because the issue was ultimately of rebellion against his (God's) rule and the bid for independence from God.

- At this point, only Adam and Eve rebelled against God... I'd hardly call two rebels a "rebellion".
- If other people would later join this "rebellion" then so be it. Judge them. Judge the guilty parties. But what God does instead is judge absolutely everyone for the actions of two people. How is this in any way sensible or just?

The human family had the right to make that bid

Why? Why did Adam have the right to bid on our lives? Anyone who gave him this right (God) is necessarily unjust.

And if they are born they would be born inheriting all the physical characteristics imposed on them by their father (Adam)

You have yet to demonstrate why it is necessary for the children to be born with the sin of their parents.

Yes we do. The comfort is that God can and will repair the damage or all those that chose the replacement "father" (Jesus).

Except that many of us won't because we have no reason to believe this "replacement father" even exists. However, if we were born in paradise as Adam was, no one would have doubted God's existence. I would have been in paradise, but because of Adam, I will never be. In your world view, I have been unjustly robbed of my place in paradise by the sins of Adam and God allowed this injustice to occur.

God could not mitigate his punishment of Adam

Again, implying God is not omnipotent

(that would have incurred more suffering that its worth thinking about)

You have yet to demonstrate why this would necessarily lead to more suffering.

He could not impose his rule on Adam's children (without denying their right to choose)

God is denying us our right to choose a life without sin. Adam had this choice in Eden. He had the choice to live without sin, but he ruined it when he ate the fruit. I never had this choice. Why?

but he could given them the chance to be born, and choose life under his (God's) rulership.

Why couldn't God give us the chance to be born in paradise as Adam was?

And then legitimately upon request, override the physical, emotional and spiritual consequences of inheritance.

Why does it have to be on request? It is obviously in our best interest. Does a parent wait for his child's request before he vaccinates him? Or does a responsible parent do what's best for the child regardless?

That's the plan, let each one make his choice.

Except for the fact that we never had the same choices Adam had. If I had, I am absolutely certain I would not have made the same mistake Adam did. As it stands, however, because of my natural skepticism, I will probably not end up in paradise in your world view. Adam is to blame for this, as is God for not allowing me the same chances as Adam

[Monta]

[Replying to post 148 by Justin108]


"God is denying us our right to choose a life without sin. Adam had this choice in Eden. He had the choice to live without sin, but he ruined it when he ate the fruit. I never had this choice. Why? "

I have a choice not to eat the fruit of sin, so does everybody else.

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 148 by Justin108]


"God is denying us our right to choose a life without sin. Adam had this choice in Eden. He had the choice to live without sin, but he ruined it when he ate the fruit. I never had this choice. Why? "

I have a choice not to eat the fruit of sin, so does everybody else.

I am talking in the literal sense