Anyone got proof of God

[nine dog war]

I have heard all the retohric, the Bible versus etc etc etc

What Im looking for is proof to the hypothesis of God. I would love to see tangible proof or if not at least one logical argument. So far I have not seen nor heard either.

Please note the words "Tangible" and "Logical". If wish to use quotes from the religious texts then please prove the vadility of the source. e.g. If you quote from the Bible book of Luke please provide proof Luke existed and was not completly stark raving mad.

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt for it is easily filled with faith.

[thebluetriangle]

Hi Bernee51.

Like it or not, the USA is in many ways the leading nation in the world.

Yep - leading in number of peoples incarcerated. Leading in incarceration of minorities. Leaders in the West in executing prisoners. Leading in believing that the world was created 4000 years ago. Leading in believing that Jesus will come in the next 50 years. Leaders in claiming the golden rule as it guiding principle and leaders in ignoring it.

In many ways, both good and bad, the USA leads the world. For instance, the USA leads the world (or until recently lead the world) in many areas of scientific research, technology and computing. You are focused only on the negatives.

thebluetriangle wrote:

A good question. I said that the twin towers were the very horns of the beast. In fact they were an archetypal manifestation of a force that stalks the earth. Most Christians would call it the Devil, satan, Lucifer, etc, but I don't believe such an entity exists. I would call it "fear-based thinking", which divides us, and has to be replaced by "love-inspired thinking", which unites us.

And around what would you base this 'love based thinking'?

On love. Every thought we have is based on either love or fear: it is the ultimate polarity. It is a question of will. We can will to be more loving, or we can let ourselves be ruled by fear. That is simple, but not always easy, because we are conditioned to think fearfully from an early age.

thebluetriangle wrote:
The problem with most Christians is that they see Jesus Christ as some kind of Superman, who will come to save us. The truth is, we will have to save ourselves, although the Holy Spirit will help us if we ask it. 9/11 was our call to awaken.

Which holy spirit? And how do you propose it be asked?

The Holy Spirit that is within us all; it is the link between our conscious selves and God. You might call it our Higher Self. You can ask it for help at any time by praying. That is the essence of the spiritual path: seeking and following higher guidance. Sincere and regular prayer (speaking to God) and meditation (listening to God) are all that is required to begin.

How, you might ask, will we know when we are guided? A good start might be to notice your dreams, which often contain guidance for you. Or your life might start to change. Or you may start to experience synchronous events. Or you may begin to receive mental images, see words or hear music or a voice.

We are up to post# 148 and still no proof of god...what a bunch of slackers!

God cannot be proven to exist. He can, however, be experienced.

thebluetriangle

[bernee51]

Hi Bernee51.

Like it or not, the USA is in many ways the leading nation in the world.

Yep - leading in number of peoples incarcerated. Leading in incarceration of minorities. Leaders in the West in executing prisoners. Leading in believing that the world was created 4000 years ago. Leading in believing that Jesus will come in the next 50 years. Leaders in claiming the golden rule as it guiding principle and leaders in ignoring it.

In many ways, both good and bad, the USA leads the world. For instance, the USA leads the world (or until recently lead the world) in many areas of scientific research, technology and computing. You are focused only on the negatives.

Only because I leave it to 'Americans' to focus on the 'positives' - of that we can be assured.

thebluetriangle wrote:
A good question. I said that the twin towers were the very horns of the beast. In fact they were an archetypal manifestation of a force that stalks the earth. Most Christians would call it the Devil, satan, Lucifer, etc, but I don't believe such an entity exists. I would call it "fear-based thinking", which divides us, and has to be replaced by "love-inspired thinking", which unites us.

And around what would you base this 'love based thinking'?

On love.

So we can base 'love based thinking' on love. Wow - why didn't I think of that?



Can you be more specific?

Every thought we have is based on either love or fear: it is the ultimate polarity. It is a question of will. We can will to be more loving, or we can let ourselves be ruled by fear. That is simple, but not always easy, because we are conditioned to think fearfully from an early age.

Like fearful of being labeled a sinner? Fearful of eternal damnation? Fearful of a vengeful god?

How, you might ask, will we know when we are guided? A good start might be to notice your dreams, which often contain guidance for you.

Hmm - you could be right.

That beautiful blonde, the Greek Island, the bottle of Krug...hmmmm.

Or you may begin to receive mental images, see words or hear music or a voice.

I quit hallucinogenics a long time ago.

God cannot be proven to exist. He can, however, be experienced.

God is a concept (by which we measure or pain)

[JudasTheGood]

hi all my name is martin and i just signed up to this forum, i am a christian and love god but like debating with ateist as it is funny to see them ignore all the proof for him.

I have heard all the retohric, the Bible versus etc etc etc

What Im looking for is proof to the hypothesis of God. I would love to see tangible proof or if not at least one logical argument. So far I have not seen nor heard either.

Please note the words "Tangible" and "Logical". If wish to use quotes from the religious texts then please prove the vadility of the source. e.g. If you quote from the Bible book of Luke please provide proof Luke existed and was not completly stark raving mad.

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt for it is easily filled with faith.

you can see gods creation everywhere, and if there is a creation, there is a creator. do you think your computer just magically came to be?

have a look at us humans, we are the most superior beings on this planet, are we not proof enough just there?

[bernee51]

hi all my name is martin and i just signed up to this forum, i am a christian and love god but like debating with ateist as it is funny to see them ignore all the proof for him.

Hi Martin and welcome. What proof of god are you referring to?

you can see gods creation everywhere,...

I don't see a creation.

and if there is a creation, there is a creator.

No creation - no creator needed.

do you think your computer just magically came to be?

This is known as a 'straw man'. It is helpful when debating to understand logical fallacies.

have a look at us humans, we are the most superior beings on this planet, ..

Are we? I don't swim as well as a dolphin. Nor fly as well as an eagle. Nor run as fast as a horse. Nor reproduce as well as a rabbit (not for want of trying ).

are we not proof enough just there?

Nup. You will have to come up with a better proof than that to convince me that your god exists.

Tell me - do you think Odin and/or Zeus exists? if not why not?

[Robert]

It is helpful when debating to understand logical fallacies.

I agree. But I am wondering what you, as an atheist, mean by that statement. What offense has a human being committed, and against whom or what, in perpetrating a logical fallacy, in your view?

Contemplate the following aphorism as you organize your thoughts for a reply:

If logic is not how God thinks, it was merely how Aristotle thought.

Respectfully,

Robert

PS. New member and first post, so if the format is messed up, please be patient while I learn the ropes.

[Goat]

LittlePig,

thebluetriangle
Quote:
This is why, six hours before the first plane struck the North Tower, I heard an inner voice say 'Serpent Power'. 9/11 was when the serpent struck.

I think there should be a new debate rule added to the board. People have to disclose all sources of subjective supernatural confirmation prior to entering into 'reasoned' discussion. That way people who have better things to do can avoid time wasting efforts to persuade the other side whose belief is based on something completely other than reason or the appearance thereof.

How presbyterian. Are you aware that the Bible is chock-full of dreams, visions, signs, angels, miracles and one full-blown Resurrection?

thebluetriangle

And you know what all of those have in common? They are after the fact , retrofitted, shoe horned, or just plain fictional.

[Zzyzx]

.

hi all my name is martin and i just signed up to this forum, i am a christian and love god but like debating with ateist as it is funny to see them ignore all the proof for him.

I have heard all the retohric, the Bible versus etc etc etc

What Im looking for is proof to the hypothesis of God. I would love to see tangible proof or if not at least one logical argument. So far I have not seen nor heard either.

Please note the words "Tangible" and "Logical". If wish to use quotes from the religious texts then please prove the vadility of the source. e.g. If you quote from the Bible book of Luke please provide proof Luke existed and was not completly stark raving mad.

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt for it is easily filled with faith.

you can see gods creation everywhere, and if there is a creation, there is a creator. do you think your computer just magically came to be?

have a look at us humans, we are the most superior beings on this planet, are we not proof enough just there?

Hi Martin,

Welcome to the forum. It is good to see new members joining – and trotting out tired old religious clichés that they must think are convincing. Perhaps “seeing god’s creations” in everything convinced them to believe that invisible super beings up in the sky influence human lives (and “afterlives”). Many must not realize that not everyone interprets “everything good” or complexity as a “sign of gods” or of “a creator”.

It would be helpful if you or anyone could show that gods are actually responsible for creating things (including computers?) rather than simply making that claim. Notice that this is a debate site and that forum rules (and ethical debate) require that claims be substantiated.

When you say that you “enjoy debating with atheists as it is funny to see them ignore all the proof for him”:

1. Kindly identify the meaning of “Atheists” as you use the term.

2. Kindly display “all the proof” for gods. .

3. Which “god” among the thousands available can be shown to be responsible for “creation” – and why?

[bernee51]

It is helpful when debating to understand logical fallacies.

I agree. But I am wondering what you, as an atheist, mean by that statement. What offense has a human being committed, and against whom or what, in perpetrating a logical fallacy, in your view?

I am committed wherever possible to reason over wishful thinking (aka faith) and I an of a view that logical fallacy is a pattern of poor reasoning which appears to be (and in this sense mimics) a pattern of good reasoning. The offense then is not against anything other than reason.

Contemplate the following aphorism as you organize your thoughts for a reply:

If logic is not how God thinks, it was merely how Aristotle thought.

OK I've contemplated it. Now what?

PS. New member and first post, so if the format is messed up, please be patient while I learn the ropes.

Welcome Robert.

May you be happy, kind, loving and peaceful.

[Robert]

Bernee,

Thanks for the welcome, and the courtesy of a reply.

You wrote...

I am committed wherever possible to reason over wishful thinking (aka faith) and I an of a view that logical fallacy is a pattern of poor reasoning which appears to be (and in this sense mimics) a pattern of good reasoning. The offense then is not against anything other than reason.

Your statement about what good reasoning is seems to violate principles of good reasoning. You seem to be saying that you want to embrace reason over faith because it is good reasoning to do so. If your position is that you are an atheist because you want to be reasoned, and then go on to define reason as atheism, I'd call that a poor argument. (I mean no insult, only to point out that more is required of one making a claim to reason than merely to affirm that he has no faith, as should now be clear from the circularity of your statements.)

OK I've contemplated it. Now what?

Well, I hope you can recognize the implications on your beliefs about logic and reason if my apodosis follows from my protasis. I made an IF / THEN statement. Can you show me how the apodosis (the "then" clause) would not follow from the protasis (the "if" clause)?

You see, I am, and will be, employing what is called a modus tollens syllogism:

If P then Q,
not Q,
therefore not P.

I am suggesting to you that if you are right that there is no God like the one described in the Bible, and that all that there is is matter, then there can be no invisible, immaterial law of omnipresent "reason" that referees individual human thoughts--and all thought, including those of Aristotle along with yours and mine, would then be reduced to the discrete chemical events in the skulls of the individual organism experiencing them, and they would then have no relation or relevance to the chemical events in the heads of any other 'thinker.'

In short, you said that only "reason" is offended, to which I must reply with the question, "What, in your view, is 'reason' exactly that we should care about offending it?"

Respectfully,

Robert

[JudasTheGood]

hi bernee!

Hi Martin and welcome. What proof of god are you referring to?

the world is proof enough, looking out the window is evidence, taking a breath. do you seriously and honestly think we came to be by mere chance? that earth came to be on the perfect spot, with the perfect weather with the exact demands for us to live?

I don't see a creation.

we can only guide the blind, not make them see.

This is known as a 'straw man'. It is helpful when debating to understand logical fallacies.

i think its a perfect example. explain how it is a 'straw man' please.

Are we? I don't swim as well as a dolphin. Nor fly as well as an eagle. Nor run as fast as a horse. Nor reproduce as well as a rabbit (not for want of trying Laughing ).

we have boats, we have airplanes, we have cars. maybe you are from a country that does not have this, but i am, and what we created are superior to anything any animal could do, this is a perfect example of how special we are.

Tell me - do you think Odin and/or Zeus exists? if not why not?

because they are madeup by pagans. they have no proof of it and they are 'man-gods'. the true god of this world is shown in the holy bible, if you read it he will guide you.

------------------------------------------


hi zzyzx!

1. Kindly identify the meaning of “Atheists” as you use the term.

someone who denies god.

2. Kindly display “all the proof” for gods. .

the world, see answer above to bernee.

3. Which “god” among the thousands available can be shown to be responsible for “creation” – and why?

the one and true god.