How do I determine what God requires of me?

[McCulloch]

I have posted what I think is the single most important issue to debate.

To me, the second most important issue is this. If there is a God, how do I determine what God requires of me? If your answer involves something that is from human agency, a book or an organization, then the question remains, "How do I know that the book's authors or the organization's leaders authoritatively speak for God?"

How do I determine what God requires of me?

[OpenedUp]

Have you had a superhuman visitation?If you have had such then you will not say,"how would you ever know."From this I say you do not know.

Have you?

[Cmass]

I have posted what I think is the single most important issue to debate.

To me, the second most important issue is this. If there is a God, how do I determine what God requires of me? If your answer involves something that is from human agency, a book or an organization, then the question remains, "How do I know that the book's authors or the organization's leaders authoritatively speak for God?"

How do I determine what God requires of me?

Simple answer: Read my signature. That says it all. Procreate and don't damage the jewels.
Hey, it's in the bible and a simple experiment could easily show it's factual accuracy.
But I'm not going to volunteer.

[byhisgrace]

I have posted what I think is the single most important issue to debate.

To me, the second most important issue is this. If there is a God, how do I determine what God requires of me? If your answer involves something that is from human agency, a book or an organization, then the question remains, "How do I know that the book's authors or the organization's leaders authoritatively speak for God?"

How do I determine what God requires of me?

Simple answer: Read my signature. That says it all. Procreate and don't damage the jewels.
Hey, it's in the bible and a simple experiment could easily show it's factual accuracy.
But I'm not going to volunteer.

------------------------------------
"He whose testicles are crushed or whose male member is cut off shall not enter the assembly of the Lord." Deuteronomy 23:1
1) At that time Eunuchs (with crushed or cut off male members), illegitimate children and tribes from Ammon and Moabs were not allowed to worship, ie: Assembly of God .... because - of fear of friendship or marriage connections with foreigners or strangers would lead Israel into Idolatry. Eunuchs were widely used to oversee and protect harems. Since we do not have Eunuchs anymore, I think we can do away with that fear .... you think?

[Zzyzx]

.

"He whose testicles are crushed or whose male member is cut off shall not enter the assembly of the Lord." Deuteronomy 23:1

1) At that time Eunuchs (with crushed or cut off male members), illegitimate children and tribes from Ammon and Moabs were not allowed to worship, ie: Assembly of God .... because - of fear of friendship or marriage connections with foreigners or strangers would lead Israel into Idolatry. Eunuchs were widely used to oversee and protect harems. Since we do not have Eunuchs anymore, I think we can do away with that fear .... you think?

Was the original "law" from god? Has it been rescinded by god? If so, kindly cite reference.

Many ancient practices, customs and supersitions imbedded in religious dogma appear to be inappropriate in modern society. However, gods don't seem to have updated their instructions. Is it the responsibility of humans to pick and choose which "laws" to follow and which to ignore? Are clerics empowered to make such decisions for gods? If not, who is?

[byhisgrace]

.

"He whose testicles are crushed or whose male member is cut off shall not enter the assembly of the Lord." Deuteronomy 23:1

1) At that time Eunuchs (with crushed or cut off male members), illegitimate children and tribes from Ammon and Moabs were not allowed to worship, ie: Assembly of God .... because - of fear of friendship or marriage connections with foreigners or strangers would lead Israel into Idolatry. Eunuchs were widely used to oversee and protect harems. Since we do not have Eunuchs anymore, I think we can do away with that fear .... you think?

Was the original "law" from god? Has it been rescinded by god? If so, kindly cite reference.

Many ancient practices, customs and supersitions imbedded in religious dogma appear to be inappropriate in modern society. However, gods don't seem to have updated their instructions. Is it the responsibility of humans to pick and choose which "laws" to follow and which to ignore? Are clerics empowered to make such decisions for gods? If not, who is?

==============================================
Hello Zzyzx:
The way I understand that is: Times and cultures change; God knows that. However, when one reads the bible, one finds that specifics may change but principles remain. Of course people will always do things without God's permission. In this case Of Deutoronomy 23:1, we should continue keep a close eye on who is in our church "The assembly of God" One or two false tachers, meaning: 'strong' personality people spreading a false Gospel, meaning: twisting words from the bible can rack havoc in a church, if not detected. Christ/Christianity is the bible. If we move away from the bible by 'generalizing' it, we are no longer worshiping Christ but a pagan god. This is what is happening A LOT in churches today. Because way too many Christians DO NOT read the bible (life has gotten too busy), they are being led away from the truth, the true Christianity.
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You see today The modern World (which maybe the one with the crushed testicles) has penetrated the Assembly of God and lead Christians into idolatry. The bible says that Christians are 'set apart'. They aught to live different, but they don't anymore. Many, by mixing worldly things with godly things are devestating to Chrstianity. We cannot serve 2 masters. Christians must understand the PRINCIPLE of the bible. Those can be applied to modern society as well - without Eunuchs.
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I hope this helps.

[Zzyzx]

.

The way I understand that is: Times and cultures change; God knows that. However, when one reads the bible, one finds that specifics may change but principles remain. Of course people will always do things without God's permission. In this case Of Deutoronomy 23:1, we should continue keep a close eye on who is in our church "The assembly of God" One or two false tachers, meaning: 'strong' personality people spreading a false Gospel, meaning: twisting words from the bible can rack havoc in a church, if not detected. Christ/Christianity is the bible. If we move away from the bible by 'generalizing' it, we are no longer worshiping Christ but a pagan god. This is what is happening A LOT in churches today. Because way too many Christians DO NOT read the bible (life has gotten too busy), they are being led away from the truth, the true Christianity.
-
You see today The modern World (which maybe the one with the crushed testicles) has penetrated the Assembly of God and lead Christians into idolatry. The bible says that Christians are 'set apart'. They aught to live different, but they don't anymore. Many, by mixing worldly things with godly things are devestating to Chrstianity. We cannot serve 2 masters. Christians must understand the PRINCIPLE of the bible. Those can be applied to modern society as well - without Eunuchs.

I agree that times and cultures change – and that most religions attempt to be unchanging because they have made claims that they represent an omniscient god and possess “the word of god”.

1) When you cite “the bible”, WHICH of the hundreds of versions (containing substantial variation) is THE Christian bible? How does one KNOW for certain that the bible they are reading is THE bible among the many choices of bibles?

2) How does one identify a “false teachers”, “false prophets”, “false churches” and “false gods” with CERTAINTY?

3) How can anyone be certain that they are “interpreting the bible” correctly?

[alexiarose]

What happens when I can't find answers? I am sorry, my belief is really hurting me right now and I am not sure of what I know.

Alexiarose,

The difficulties you are experiencing represent conflicts between what you WANT to believe and what you KNOW about the real world you inhabit.

I don't know that God does not exist. I don't know that God doesn't interfere or intervene, whichever you choose, in our lives.

In evaluating the responses to your posts notice the difference between Theist and Non-Theist presentations. Theist responses tend to be emotionally based reassurances that their beliefs and their favorite gods offer “salvation” and “hope”. Non-Theist responses tend to encourage you to think and decide on your own based in reason and real life experience rather than hoping or praying for external guidance.

So is it your contention that we appeal to emotions more than non-theists? External guidance can come from my best friend, my mother, my pastor (if I had one ) and many other source not to mention God. I will have to admit that I have gotten no guidance from God here so my belief is fairly weak right now. I don't know if it will return or not. No worries though, I have a full bag of lollipops and double bubble so my sugar high will prevent me from becoming Confused, LOL.
Ok, seriously, you are correct. From what I have seen so far, there is more emotions in belief than in non-belief. I still don't think that gives it any less credence. It just complicates things, a lot. It has led me to question the basic beliefs I have held on to despite being the only one bombarded by a family of non-believers. I can't give you anything concrete at this time.

Life is NOT “fair” and being responsible for our own decisions and our own path in life is not always easy or pleasant. It is far simpler to “just put your life in the hands of god” and to accept whatever happens as “his will” or “what was intended”. But, there is NO assurance that “whatever happens” is influenced by invisible super beings. Those who preach such things CANNOT demonstrate that gods interfere with human lives.

I don't think that a belief in God necessarily says you cannot think outside the box. Achilles and Micatala are two prime examples of being able to think outside the box. I don't think that everything that happens in your life is divine will. I think we are human and subject to human screw ups. They aren't always meant to teach a lesson to us. Sometimes they can be just to teach a lesson to another and you are merely a pawn in the lesson. Sometime stuff just happens for no reason at all. If we look at every event as a message from God, we will never advance. We would still be stuck in 300 A.D. (An awesome movie with sweet 6-8 pack abs, SWEET!!). We are meant to use our brains, not rely on God for anything except comfort. It may not mean much to you, but it means much to me.

They base their claims upon writings by people who lived thousands of years ago when supernaturalism and superstition were more commonly used to “explain” whatever was unknown. Ignorance of nature allowed people to believe common tales of the era such as divine impregnation (virgin birth), following a star, walking on water, coming back from the dead, etc.

I don't think this has to always be the case. I think open minded should be the golden rule. Not scripture. Call me crazy, you won't be the first. I have lose a few friends because of this. But God gave us a brain for the express purpose of using it. Not relying on superstitions.

Being ignorant of the Earth and the universe led people to make stories about the Earth being the center of the universe or the Earth stopping rotation (“sun stood still”). Likewise, ignorance of the size and configuration of the Earth led to stories about a worldwide flood “to the tops of mountains” and tales of a “high mountain from which all the kingdoms of the Earth” could be seen (obviously impossible on a spherical body).

Yes, and we now know them to have been idiots. 100 years from now, we will be considered just as stupid. We evolve. We learn. We should never allow beliefs to override common sense or rely on status quo to dictate our futures. We make them. It is up to us to search out our meaning in life. I admit, I have had few opportunities to do this yet, and I the ones I have, as I suspect you know, have turned to crud quickly and mom had to bail me out. But lessons learned, even the hard way, are more appreciated than lessons taught.

Perhaps there is an omniscient, omnipotent, infinite “creator”. If so, such a thing / being is far beyond the perception and understanding of humans. Those who claim to speak for a “creator” are misguided or lying. When asked for evidence that they represent or understand such things, they bring out dogma or documents that make other claims – but which do NOT show any evidence of actual existence of or communication with a “supreme being”.

Perhaps you are right. I don't claim to understand Him.

Notice that when you ask for evidence you are told to study or pray and are NOT given any evidence. Or, you are directed to an unknown (such as the origin of life) and told that unless there is a scientific explanation right now, that must be the work of their gods.

Since I don't go to the classical church, I don't know. Currently, I go to the Pensacola chapter of the UU, so you know that I am not directed this way.

Notice also that thousands of different “gods” have been loved, feared and worshiped by humans and that there are several that are popular currently. What ALL gods have in common is a complete lack of evidence of existence. Although all gods are equally devoid of proof, those who worship gods are often willing to kill or die “in the name of god”.

I don't know that all aren't the same God, just different understandings of Him. Perhaps there is no right or wrong understanding. Just ones we can live with.

[olavisjo]

You are trying too hard to be a Vulcan, when I was a child, I really admired Spock on Star Trek and wanted to be like him, that is why I did well in the sciences, but he was limited in solving many problems, he was just too darn logical for his own good, as McCoy was fond of saying.

Your opinion (relating to television characters) and personal comments are unwanted, unwarranted and inappropriate. This is a debate forum, not an advice column.

I did not have the experience of being a television viewer; however, I am aware of Star Trek series. I do not “speak television”.

True, this is a debate forum, but does that mean we have to argue and fight with each other? Is there any reason why we can't try to find some common ground and try to understand each other? To me, understanding how our minds process information and evidence is important in making any progress in understanding important issues.
My comparing you to the scientist that I admired the most in my formative years was not meant as an insult, and I find it surprising that you would be so offended by it.
Where do you get this concept of being injured by mere words? And it is not only you, but all people, even children in a playground have a very strict code of conduct that they expect from each other but often have a hard time adhering to themselves.
You are so fond of saying that there is no evidence of an invisible god, yet even you believe in an invisible moral law, why would this invisible moral law not come from an invisible moral law giver?

You can limit your reasoning to just one half of your brain (left side) but you will never find any serious truth until you learn to use both sides of your brain at the same time.

Are you assuming that your knowledge is superior to mine? Are you assuming that you know what is best for me in my life?

A debate forum is not the proper place to attempt to teach people to use their brain or to give advice as though you know and they do not.

Once again you are calling me for violating the invisible moral law. Can you honestly tell me that you don't feel your knowledge is not superior to mine? Or is it okay to think so as long as you don't verbalize it. Why should I not feel offended because you need to correct my faulty delusional thinking?
You may be right, though, using your brain in a debate forum may not be such a good idea.

Open up a little, and learn to process all the information available and not just a few snippets here and there.

I am open to evidence, not conjecture or hearsay. Do you have evidence to present or is it all opinion, quotation and speculation? If evidence is available, kindly bring it forward for examination and discussion.

How does one present evidence to someone who has closed his mind, only to build a straw men out of anything he is told?
Before we can determine what God requires we must accept that it is possible (however improbable) that he may exist.
For evidence look at all the stuff around you, and ask where did it come from, I can only come up with about three scenarios.

1.) It has always been there.
2.) It was created from nothing, by nothing.
3.) It was created by something greater than the universe.
4.) We don't know, but by faith in science we believe that one day we will discover the origins of matter and energy.

Number 1. has pretty much been ruled out by observation, number 2. makes no sense, number 3. is the only rational explanation, number 4. may never produce any fruit.
Do you have any credible evidence to present on where a non-theistic universe would come from? If evidence is available, kindly bring it forward for examination and discussion.
If not, then we will talk about your Thor, Zeus and Jesus straw man.

[byhisgrace]

.

The way I understand that is: Times and cultures change; God knows that. However, when one reads the bible, one finds that specifics may change but principles remain. Of course people will always do things without God's permission. In this case Of Deutoronomy 23:1, we should continue keep a close eye on who is in our church "The assembly of God" One or two false tachers, meaning: 'strong' personality people spreading a false Gospel, meaning: twisting words from the bible can rack havoc in a church, if not detected. Christ/Christianity is the bible. If we move away from the bible by 'generalizing' it, we are no longer worshiping Christ but a pagan god. This is what is happening A LOT in churches today. Because way too many Christians DO NOT read the bible (life has gotten too busy), they are being led away from the truth, the true Christianity.
-
You see today The modern World (which maybe the one with the crushed testicles) has penetrated the Assembly of God and lead Christians into idolatry. The bible says that Christians are 'set apart'. They aught to live different, but they don't anymore. Many, by mixing worldly things with godly things are devestating to Chrstianity. We cannot serve 2 masters. Christians must understand the PRINCIPLE of the bible. Those can be applied to modern society as well - without Eunuchs.

I agree that times and cultures change – and that most religions attempt to be unchanging because they have made claims that they represent an omniscient god and possess “the word of god”.

1) When you cite “the bible”, WHICH of the hundreds of versions (containing substantial variation) is THE Christian bible? How does one KNOW for certain that the bible they are reading is THE bible among the many choices of bibles?

2) How does one identify a “false teachers”, “false prophets”, “false churches” and “false gods” with CERTAINTY?

3) How can anyone be certain that they are “interpreting the bible” correctly?

==================
ZzyzX:
1) There are a lot of translations in different English, in German, in Korean, in Russian, etc. Many different words can say the same thing. All officially accepted Christian bibles say the same thing. The Doctrine is correct.
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2) However, if someone comes along and says something that maybe a 1/2 truth (according to Christianity, of course) by a little twist according to ones own understanding, to make it 'feel better' for oneself, it becomes a serious problem because that person changes 'the meaning", and, if the other person does not read the bible regularly, and, therefore, does not realize the false information, but believes this false teaching. That person eventually will 'fall away' and prays to the god of "their understanding", and hence not to the God of the bible. This person can ultimately misled to the "broad way", instead staying on "the narrow path" which leads to God. According to Christian belief, the broad way leads to destruction. This is written in Matt 6:13, 14.
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3) When Jesus departed He said that He will send His Helper who is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit enters a person when he or she believes in Jesus Christ. With the Holy Spirit, the believer understands and can apply the bible to their life. I actually experienced it myself, but would not have believed it if somebody would have told me. I did not grow up in church like so many Christians. Yet, when I 'was saved' - or when Christ came into my life, I UNDERSTOOD... I just knew. Strange, but true. Today, I like reading the bible. It gives me peace. Of course I do not know everything. There are also a variety of commentaries. I read those, too. And of course I go to Bible Study where Christian scholars put the bible together from the OT to the NT, and let the bible proof itself. It is very interesting how it all fits. Through reading the bible we find out what God wants us to do. It's a thought and heart process. True Christians WANT to read the bible - it's a kind of desire. Christians want to come closer to God, want to know God, and that is through the bible.

[bernee51]

Before we can determine what God requires we must accept that it is possible (however improbable) that he may exist.
For evidence look at all the stuff around you, and ask where did it come from, I can only come up with about three scenarios.

1.) It has always been there.
2.) It was created from nothing, by nothing.
3.) It was created by something greater than the universe.
4.) We don't know, but by faith in science we believe that one day we will discover the origins of matter and energy.

Number 1. has pretty much been ruled out by observation, number 2. makes no sense, number 3. is the only rational explanation, number 4. may never produce any fruit.
Do you have any credible evidence to present on where a non-theistic universe would come from? If evidence is available, kindly bring it forward for examination and discussion.
If not, then we will talk about your Thor, Zeus and Jesus straw man.

I didn't know that #1 had been ruled out. I would have thought that the universe existing eternally, in some form or another, is a possibility.

#2. why?

#3. ah - the "i don't know ergo 'goddidit'" argument.

#4. 'faith in science'?. My favourite equivocation.

If the only evidence for a god is the existence of the universe then why bother with a god concept?