How can we determine which parts of Scripture are true?

[Zelduck]

This is really a question for Christians, but since it doesn't assume the validity of the Bible, I think it belongs here rather than in the Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma section.

There have been multiple canons of Scripture. Books have been accepted and rejected for various reasons throughout Christian history. Books have lied about their authorship. Passages have been added and removed. Books were written in different times and different places by different authors and for different reasons.

So how can I have confidence in any particular verse, chapter, or book, that what I am reading is the inspired work of the Holy Spirit, and not the work of a man, no matter how pious?

What method ought I use to reliably determine what is and is not the Word of God? Has someone already done this for me, and if so, how can I tell if they didn't make a mistake?

[Korah]

[Replying to post 170 by Tired of the Nonsense]
The last six posts have nothing to do with the OP or to any of the preceding posts. In addition Posts #166 and #167 are duplicates of #165 that the Newbie poster did not know he could have deleted himself if he had acted in time.

Perhaps they should be moved to a new thread titled something like "God the Creator?"

[Zzyzx]

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[Replying to post 171 by Korah]

Since you seem to becoming aware of posts not relating to the OP, perhaps you will apply that understanding when tempted to post your previous writings (or "Seven written eyewitness accounts") into threads to which they do not relate.

In this thread, even if there were such accounts (which as not been established beyond conjecture and supposition), there is no assurance that they were truthful and accurate -- or that they verify which parts of scripture are true.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 170 by Tired of the Nonsense]
The last six posts have nothing to do with the OP or to any of the preceding posts. In addition Posts #166 and #167 are duplicates of #165 that the Newbie poster did not know he could have deleted himself if he had acted in time.

Perhaps they should be moved to a new thread titled something like "God the Creator?"

I disagree. The subject under consideration here is: "How can we determine which parts of Scripture are true?" And the clear answer is that those portions of scripture which serve to contradict the established laws of physics are clearly NOT TRUE. I am currently in the process of establishing the parameters of just what the laws of physics are.

[Zzyzx]

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If god did not make any of this and it was caused by accident, How come everything is so perfectly aligned?

The answer is the same as "Why does the puddle exactly fit the hole?" Does it take "intelligent design" for water to conform to the basin? Thus, oceans occupy low places in the crust, lakes occupy low places on continents. What is mysterious or difficult to understand about that?

Likewise, life forms fit their environment. Is that somehow surprising or incomprehensible?

Polar bears are not inhabitants of the tropics. Surprising? Humans do not inhabit deep oceans. Surprising?

[followthelamb]

[Replying to Zzyzx]

You speak these mighty words now, but when your fear comes upon u who do you subconsciously call upon?

Why the heathen are in sight of a mighty wind, why do they subconsciously say oh my god? since there is no god.

I tell you this when trouble comes upon you call upon your scientist to deliver you, say science keep the tornado from my house so i and all that i have do not be tossed in the wind.

All the words you said are vanity how can we agree on the matter? You believe in whats seen but there are those who believe in him tho he is not seen.

I tell you this in the coming days after the leader of the islamic state gains the whole world and enforce the mark upon all the world save for the three nations that shall escape.

You will see the son of man come in his glory and you will know god when he has shut his doors to his kingdom.

You shall speak to the mountains and you shall yell at the hills,

thus you shall say, "fall on us and hide us from the great fear of the lord and the wrath of the lamb.

In that day you shall know pray u sleep before that day

[followthelamb]

[Replying to followthelamb]

You say if all was created by god then god must had a creator? and if god had a creator than that creator had a creator and if that creator had a creator than were does it end?

Actually this is your own belief system in action. You have concluded that the observable universe must have been created by a Being who did not require a creation. You have simply made up an answer which is NOT obvious, and declared it to be true. This is known as MAKE BELIEVE, and it serves no purpose in the quest for knowledge. The universe exists. We are an intrinsic part of the universe, and to deny our own existence would be illogical. Therefore, what does the universe itself tell us about it's own, and our own, existence? Discovering that requires experimentation and careful observation. Along with a willingness to accept what we find at face value without preconceptions or prejudice. The truth is under no obligation to conform to our emotional needs and desires. Through long years of experimentation and observation we have learned two very important facts about the nature of the universe. The first is Einstein's famous theorem E=MC^2. Matter IS energy. Matter, this stuff that you and I and the universe we are a part of exist in a somewhat congealed, or semi-fixed, state. Matter is the result of the quanta that I mentioned earlier clumping together to form atoms, which in turn form the elements that the stars and the planets and you and I are made of. Quanta are incredibly tiny bits of pure vibrating energy. The frequency of their vibration determines whether they are positively or negatively charged. At it's core, matter IS energy you see. The second important observation is derived from what is known as the law of conservation of energy. You may well have heard of this yourself. It states that ENERGY CANNOT BE CREATED OR DESTROYED. The law of conservation of energy was derived over centuries of experimentation and observation. Never once has it failed to be proven true. Energy can be changed in form, but no new energy is ever gained or lost in the process. If energy cannot be created or destroyed, IT IS ETERNAL by definition. And if it can't be created, THERE CAN BE NO CREATOR. This is what experimentation and observation has shown us, without prejudice.

If god did not make any of this and it was caused by accident, How come everything is so perfectly aligned? we know a man did not place the sun were it is nor the moon, we know a man did not even place stars in fact scientist can not even see past certain limits of the heavens, they can only see in this galaxy last i heard. but how many other glalaxies are there?

Everything that occurs does so for a very precise set of reasons. Cause proceeds effect in an unbroken chain. The sun shining on a body of water cause the water molecules to percolate up into the air molecules. We refer to this as humidity. At high altitude where it is cooler, the water condenses into a vapor we call clouds. The sun is the cause, the clouds are the effect. There is NO intelligence behind this however. It is a natural occurrence driven by the fact that matter/energy interacts with itself due to the ongoing attraction/repulsion positive/negative process called quantum mechanics. The moon and the sun and the stars are all a result of this very same process. Things are as they are now for very precise sets of reasons. Things were not always they way they are now, nor will they always remain this way in the future. Change is the very nature of quantum mechanics. But no intelligence is responsible. Mankind certainly is not responsible for any of this. We are simply along for the ride.

The estimated number of galaxies in the observable universe currently stands at approximately a couple of hundred billion, give or take. Light from galaxies further away than that, if they exist, has not had time to reach us yet.

All that is written from the scriptures is truth, the proof you seek you can not see, and the evidence you desire you can not obtain,

For if you can not see that god is the rock and the foundation how can you see his sons tho they are in your face.

Know and understand this whether u believe or not the heavens will be rolled back like a scroll and all men shall see his glory in the days to come.

it is written make the heart of these people fat so they can not see with their eyes or hear with there ears and be converted and be healed.

there fore you can not hear unless u understand

[Zzyzx]

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[Replying to post 175 by followthelamb]

If you don't mind saying, are you a professional religionist (one who derives income from religion) ?

You speak these mighty words now, but when your fear comes upon u who do you subconsciously call upon?

Many of the weak, meek, humble, god worshipers, and others have been telling me this for nearly seventy-five years, perhaps hoping that I couldn't handle what came up (and be like them). I have faced fear many times as a paratrooper, an ironworker (high steel), a rock climber (and even during my time as a university professor) without "subconsciously calling upon" invisible, undetectable, proposed "gods."

"Just you wait, God will get you, he doesn't like confident people. Just wait. Keep waiting. Wait a little longer. One of these days terrible things will happen to you. Just wait." A lot of those folks have died since. Perhaps they just couldn't wait?

Why the heathen are in sight of a mighty wind, why do they subconsciously say oh my god? since there is no god.

How, exactly, do you know what people do when "in sight of a mighty wind?" Have you been there with me? Or, are you just projecting personal insecurities or inabilities onto others?

I tell you this when trouble comes upon you call upon your scientist to deliver you, say science keep the tornado from my house so i and all that i have do not be tossed in the wind.

I'm no stranger to trouble and I was raised in hurricane country (South Florida) and have experienced high velocity winds. What is that that you expect?

When I encounter injury or disease I consult a DOCTOR (courtesy of the VA now) – one who has studied science and medicine.

Those who demean science still seem to rely upon modern medicine when they or loved ones are sick or injured. Why don't they just pray to their "gods" to cure them from "curses" or "drive out demons" -- since they so disrespect and demean science?

All the words you said are vanity how can we agree on the matter? You believe in whats seen but there are those who believe in him tho he is not seen.

Those who choose to worship one of the thousands of proposed "gods" are more than welcome to place their confidence in the invisible, undetectable, unverifiable, supernatural entities proposed by religionists.

I tell you this in the coming days after the leader of the islamic state gains the whole world and enforce the mark upon all the world save for the three nations that shall escape.

So you say. Religionists have been talking about doomsday for thousands of years. Muslims and Christians have been making war on each other for a thousand years or more. So what?

You will see the son of man come in his glory and you will know god when he has shut his doors to his kingdom.

Oh sure – Is your saying so a verification that it is true?

Do tales like this convince many people be become worshipers?

You shall speak to the mountains and you shall yell at the hills,

thus you shall say, "fall on us and hide us from the great fear of the lord and the wrath of the lamb.

In that day you shall know pray u sleep before that day

Is this intended as preaching? If so it does not belong in debate (try Holy Huddle)

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to followthelamb]

All that is written from the scriptures is truth, the proof you seek you can not see, and the evidence you desire you can not obtain,

For if you can not see that god is the rock and the foundation how can you see his sons tho they are in your face.

Know and understand this whether u believe or not the heavens will be rolled back like a scroll and all men shall see his glory in the days to come.

it is written make the heart of these people fat so they can not see with their eyes or hear with there ears and be converted and be healed.

there fore you can not hear unless u understand

Is this this claim of yours true for all holy religious scripture, or just the stuff that you have personally proclaimed to be true and valid? The Holy Qu'ran for example. Is it the genuine Word of God, or just another example of someone else's made up nonsense? I have no religious beliefs myself by the way, just so that we are clear on that point. Presumably you are a Christian, in which case the cornerstone of your belief system is that a corpse came back to life and flew away. Do you consider this to be a perfectly rational and reasonable thing to believe, or can you see that there may be some basis for others to, shall we say, be less then overwhelmed by the likelihood of such an apparently absurd claim to be true?

[followthelamb]

[Replying to followthelamb]

All that is written from the scriptures is truth, the proof you seek you can not see, and the evidence you desire you can not obtain,

For if you can not see that god is the rock and the foundation how can you see his sons tho they are in your face.

Know and understand this whether u believe or not the heavens will be rolled back like a scroll and all men shall see his glory in the days to come.

it is written make the heart of these people fat so they can not see with their eyes or hear with there ears and be converted and be healed.

there fore you can not hear unless u understand

Is this this claim of yours true for all holy religious scripture, or just the stuff that you have personally proclaimed to be true and valid? The Holy Qu'ran for example. Is it the genuine Word of God, or just another example of someone else's made up nonsense? I have no religious beliefs myself by the way, just so that we are clear on that point. Presumably you are a Christian, in which case the cornerstone of your belief system is that a corpse came back to life and flew away. Do you consider this to be a perfectly rational and reasonable thing to believe, or can you see that there may be some basis for others to, shall we say, be less then overwhelmed by the likelihood of such an apparently absurd claim to be true?

Its hard for you to believe in the one and true god the lord jesus christ. and its sometimes hard for me to understand how a man can not believe in the lord christ since the evidence of his pressence is all throughout the earth.


It is written the fool says there is no god. so who then is wise?

As for the abomination, do not put the quran and the bible in the same sentence for the god of the quran is no god but satan him self,

Less you see a sign and a mighty wonder you will not believe. Even still there were those who still did not believe for the mighty works of the lord.

Here is your sign behold it is a prophecy. The islamic state leader will gain all nations except for 3,

though u are not religious you will bow before him to save your life, for the times coming when all who do not bow to him and his god will be killed.

All who are written in the lambs book of life will not bow to him or take his mark
and even they will be as a man with out a head. For they will be killed.

at the end of the days the nations will come against jerusalem and jerusalem will go into captivity 42 months

all these things will be done in this generation. when u see it come to pass no that the lord thy god has worked a sign through me for your sake.

JUST NOW IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU BEHOLD THESE THINGS THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH SHALL BE MOVED OUT OF ITS PLACE.

if you do not believe now believe when you see these saying come to pass in the near future.

So u may be hid from the evil to come

[followthelamb]

[Replying to post 177 by Zzyzx]

Scorn now but weep later.

You rely on doctors as if they can cure you.
If god strikes you with a uncurable diseases all your hope is in the grave for you wont call upon him.

Tell your doctors to cure you from ebola and viruses to come which is far worst than these you have seen and heard.

when the lord strikes you, if he strikes you for your rebellion and folly.