All people live on faith

[JohnnyJersey]

All people live on faith. There is not a soul in the world who KNOWS everything about everything. People all live on faith to some extent or another. By and large, most (if not all) people temper their faith with reason; it is rare that people believe things on blind faith. Someone may not know how or why his car works, but he has faith that it does. He may have enough knowledge about the car to satisfy (or PROVE to) himself that the car is worthy of his putting faith into it to do what he expects it to do. He need not get an education in engineering and auto mechanics to reasonably believe that a car will work as he expects.

People - theists and atheists alike - do this on a daily basis, with (virtually? probably absolutely) everything in their lives. We truly, at the root of it, don't KNOW anything. We use the word "know" to describe those things in which we have the greatest faith.

It is irrational for atheists to presume that theists don't know about God due to a lack of "proof" or due to the fact that there is faith involved. Most of those very atheists claim to "know" a lot of things which they, in fact, only "know" because they put their faith in what they have learned from others. Someone who has not been to Australia cannot claim to KNOW that Australia exists EXCEPT by accepting as valid evidence the reports and tales of others.

Many an atheist has admitted to accepting something as "true" based on a certain amount of evidence. It is implicit in their use of "evidence" that they refer to that evidence which they accept as valid, where someone else may reject that very same "evidence". Yet, they will turn around and decry the "fanciful tales and stories" about "gods and imaginary [sic] beings" that theists and supernaturalists accept as real.

There is a definite disconnect on the part of the anti-faith crowd.

Can anyone reasonably deny that faith plays a huge role in every person's life?

[JohnnyJersey]

Faith and trust without evidence is dangerous.

Support that claim. I don't agree; I'd say faith without evidence CAN BE a dangerous thing, and perhaps often is, but not always.

Also, identify to me where faith and trust WITHOUT EVIDENCE is widespread. Or did you mean "faih and trust without evidence that I would personally accept as good or valid evidence"???

Are you equating faith in the existence of Australia with faith in the existence of an invisible God?

No. I never mentioned God. Are you trying to infer that which I didn't say?

There is overwhelming evidence of Australia, none for your particular God. Yes, we put faith or trust in things we cannot prove beyond all doubt but this faith IS based on evidence, sometimes only circumstantial evidence, but evidence never the less.

So you agree faith can be and is often based on evidence. Thank you for affirming the point I made in the OP.

I cannot prove the sun will rise tomorrow but I trust that it will based upon my experience with it and the science available. The fact of my faith in the sun's rising is shown by my lack of ritual and belief dances to make it rise. Christianity's insistence on worship and ritual demonstrates a lack of faith and a focus on membership and showmanship.

I'll bet you go to bed at night because you have faith in the sun rising the next day. I'll bet on the days you wake up before the sun has risen you still go ahead with your morning ritual - breakfast, brush teeth (I hope), shower, etc. in preparation for the coming sunrise and the day that accompanies it. Ritual is not always to effect a result, and in Christianity in particular it is not. Christian Ritual is symbolic.

If you're going to attack ritual then I believe that you don't honor any ritual. So when a national anthem is played, I suppose you remain seated, you don't remove your hate if you're wearing one, you go on and talk on the phone or to other people. Or at a graduation ceremony, you don't honor the ritual by remaining seated during the valedictorian's speech but rather walk around and talk to people or do whatever you like.

Your attempt to conflate ritual (as some kind of magic dance) with faith is ridiculous.

[JohnnyJersey]

As noted...it is a fallacy of equivocation.

I guess no thread is complete without these empty pat-on-the-back comments on the atheist side of things. "Fallacy of equivocation"??? Prove it.

[Goat]

As noted...it is a fallacy of equivocation.

I guess no thread is complete without these empty pat-on-the-back comments on the atheist side of things. "Fallacy of equivocation"??? Prove it.

It has been... with your claim that the sign "Are you good without God? Millions are.
is violence against Christians, merely because Christians believe that you can't be.

[JohnnyJersey]

What are these things that make your particular God 'evident' and demonstrable? How do these things differ from what makes the Islamic faith evident and demonstrable to the Muslim?

The OP is "all people live on faith" and does not mention God. I am making a case for general faith, not a particular faith in a particular God.

[Goat]

What are these things that make your particular God 'evident' and demonstrable? How do these things differ from what makes the Islamic faith evident and demonstrable to the Muslim?

The OP is "all people live on faith" and does not mention God. I am making a case for general faith, not a particular faith in a particular God.

And, you are making the logical fallacy of equivocation.. as was pointed out. There is a difference between the faith of 'My car will start in the morning' and 'there is a god."

[JohnnyJersey]

Faith is the belief in something without "proof".

Is that the definition Christians use when they refer to their faith?

It's Merriam Webster's definition. You should consult the dictionary more often for words you don't understand, rather than asking me or others constantly for definitions.

Correction: The Merriam Webster Dictionary definition of faith IS:

1 a : the act or state of wholeheartedly and steadfastly believing in the existence, power, and benevolence of a supreme being, of having confidence in his providential care, and of being loyal to his will as revealed or believed in : belief and trust in and loyalty to God *people earnestly prayed in the ages of faith T to be delivered from sudden death" J.A.Pike* *lost his faith at an early age* b (1) : an act or attitude of intellectual assent to the traditional doctrines of one's religion : orthodox religious belief (2) : a decision of an individual entrusting his life to God's transforming care in response to an experience of God's mercy c among Roman Catholic theologians : a supernatural virtue by which one believes on the authority of God himself all that God has revealed or proposes through the Church for belief
2 a (1) : firm or unquestioning belief in something for which there is no proof *for the scientist faith can be no virtue, because it is inconsistent with the resolution to accept the fact as supreme" P.W.Bridgman* *clinging to the faith that her missing son would one day return* (2) : uncritical grounds for belief " used chiefly in the phrase on faith *you will have to accept my statements on faith* b : CONFIDENCE; especially : firm or unquestioning trust or confidence in the value, power, or efficacy of something *have faith in prayer* *faith in his medical skill* *the faith on which science rests, the faith in the value of truth seeking" H.T.Muller*
3 a : an assurance, promise, or pledge of fidelity, loyalty, or performance *gave his faith that he would come on the appointed day* " often used in the phrases to keep faith or to break faith *to have hitchhiked would have been breaking faith, for all who use the country's youth hostels are honor bound to reach them under their own power" H.V.Morton* b : fidelity to one's promises : allegiance to a duty or a person : sincerity or honesty of intentions : LOYALTY " often used with the qualifiers good or bad to specify a state of mind of one trying to be honest and faithful *observed perfect good faith and strictly fulfilled their engagements" Marjory S. Douglas* or of one trying to deceive, mislead, or defraud *accused him of bad faith*
4 obsolete : AUTHORITY, CREDIT, CREDIBILITY
5 : something that is believed or adhered to especially with strong conviction: as a (1) : a system of religious beliefs : RELIGION *an individual of the Jewish faith* (2) : the body of believers : an organized church or denomination *a movement supported by all the great faiths* b : the cherished values, ideals, or beliefs of an individual or people : WELTANSCHAUUNG, CREED, CREDO *a free world which is strong in its faith and in its material progress" Dean Acheson* c : the fundamental tenets, views, or beliefs of an individual or group on a particular subject or in a particular field *a profession of literary faith* *I state my own faith at once T organic union under the Crown is vital" R.G.Menzies* *she visits the prisoners of her own political faith" Katharine A. Porter*
6 often capitalized : the true religion from the point of view of the speaker " usually used with the *the king, temporal head of the faith*
synonyms see BELIEF, RELIGION, TRUST
"in faith : by my faith : VERILY

I ask which of the meanings (definitions) is applied by Christians and which is implied in the OP.

2 b : CONFIDENCE; especially : firm or unquestioning trust or confidence in the value, power, or efficacy of something *have faith in prayer* *faith in his medical skill* *the faith on which science rests, the faith in the value of truth seeking" H.T.Muller*

All the definitions of "faith" iin your pasted definition are correct and share a common thread, that of a trust without complete proof. That's why so many atheists play word games by substituting synonyms of "faith" like "confidence" or "trust" or "belief".

Note that even the definition you provide uses "faith in his medical skill" and "faith on which science rests" as examples of correct usage of the word "faith".

If you were to answer honestly and openly, you would acknowledge that one part of the definition is used by Christians to identify what they mean by "faith" and a different part of the definition is what you quote.

That's an oversimplification. The part of the definition used by Christians is directly related to the rest of the definition regarding belief without proof. Science rests on faith in that the premises in science cannot be proven but must at some point simply be intuited and accepted for science to progress and it is the same with a Christian's faith in God. "Faith" is the same for both - an acceptance of an inuited premise for which there is no "proof". Obviously, for one who does not accept a premise on faith, whether it be for science or philosophy or whatever, cannot move forward in that reasoning.

Are YOU willing to refrain from anecdotal comments?

When you and everyone else refrains, I will.

I am willing to debate you Head to Head under controlled conditions wherein no personal comments of any kind are permitted. You are evidently unwilling or unable to accept those terms and to debate fairly and honestly.

Unwilling. I don't want to reward you with the debate you seek so desperately from me because you give me no reason to want to reward you with such.

I have no interest in winning debates,

I'll believe that when you stop begging me for a debate in almost every reply to me that you post.

Kindly specify what evidence you suggest that others accept for the existence of god.

That's not the topic of this thread. This thread is about the fact that people believe a lot of what they believe based on faith, regardless of whether those beliefs involve God or not. Try to stay on topic.

You claim above to have presented evidence but when I ask what evidence? instead of answering you claim off topic.

To eliminate that excuse, I started another thread entitled WHAT evidence?, and invite you to present readers with the evidence that you repeatedly claim to have.[/quote]

You ignore or dismiss evidence when it suits you, as you've done in the threads where I have provided evidence, so why would your new thread be any different? What a joke.

[JohnnyJersey]

As noted...it is a fallacy of equivocation.

I guess no thread is complete without these empty pat-on-the-back comments on the atheist side of things. "Fallacy of equivocation"??? Prove it.

It has been... with your claim that the sign "Are you good without God? Millions are.
is violence against Christians, merely because Christians believe that you can't be.

How does that prove a "fallacy of equivocation"?? Again, you make a statement but you don't make your case, let alone prove it.

Furthermore, if what you posted were a fallacy of equivocation, that has nothing to do with my claims in THIS thread which is where bernee's fallacy of equivocation is alleged, so proving your case would not prove bernee's case.

What is it with anti-Christians and failure to use logic around here???

[Crazy Ivan]

As noted...it is a fallacy of equivocation.

I guess no thread is complete without these empty pat-on-the-back comments on the atheist side of things. "Fallacy of equivocation"??? Prove it.

It has been... with your claim that the sign "Are you good without God? Millions are.
is violence against Christians, merely because Christians believe that you can't be.

How does that prove a "fallacy of equivocation"?? Again, you make a statement but you don't make your case, let alone prove it.

Furthermore, if what you posted were a fallacy of equivocation, that has nothing to do with my claims in THIS thread which is where bernee's fallacy of equivocation is alleged, so proving your case would not prove bernee's case.

What is it with anti-Christians and failure to use logic around here???

You're exactly like that guy from Xtreme Ministries, trying to disassociate "violence" from "cage fighting". You guys are hilarious...

-edit: John "The Saint" Renken...

[Cephus]

This is an all-too-common tactic used by theists and other irrational folk, they take a vague term like "faith" or "belief" and expand it so that it includes almost everyone, then try to claim that because the expanded version of the term includes most people, that their own narrow version must also be true.

It doesn't work that way.

I don't have "faith" in the same sense that a theist does. I do not believe things for which there is no evidence or logical reasoning. That is why I don't use the term "faith" in reference to myself because it simply isn't the same thing as the blind, fanatical belief in things for which there is no good reason to think are actually real that theists embrace.

So no, "faith" in the way you mean it, plays no part whatsoever in my life.

Try again.

[JohnnyJersey]

You're exactly like that guy from Xtreme Ministries, trying to disassociate "violence" from "cage fighting". You guys are hilarious...

-edit: John "The Saint" Renken...

You're exactly like that atheist who irrationally hates religion...Stalin.