Mass sightings of UFO's the value of eyewitness testimony

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DanieltheDragon
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Mass sightings of UFO's the value of eyewitness testimony

Post #1

Post by DanieltheDragon »

1. June 1, 1853: Luminous Objects Hover Over Tennessee College Campus. As the sun rose over the campus of Burritt College, numerous students—who apparently were early risers in those days, too—were startled to see two luminous objects in the sky. According to professor A.C. Carnes, who reported the incident in a letter to Scientific American, the first had the appearance of a small new moon, while the other resembled a large star. The small object then vanished, while the bigger one changed shape, first into a globe and then into an elongated shape parallel with the horizon. The smaller light then became visible again, and increased rapidly in size, while the other object shrank. The two objects continued fluctuating in a similar fashion for the next 30 minutes. “The students have asked for an explanation, but neither the President nor Professors are satisfied as to the character of the lights,� wrote Carnes. While he himself speculated that the occurrence might have been caused somehow by atmospheric moisture, the incident remains a mystery.

2. April 17, 1897: Purported UFO crash in Texas. At about 6 a.m. that morning, according to contemporaneous Dallas Morning News account, citizens of the small town of Aurora were awakened by the appearance of what the writer referred to as an “airship.� The craft reportedly malfunctioned and stalled, and crashed into a windmill on the property of a local judge, scattering debris over several acres. “The pilot of the ship is supposed to have been the only one aboard and, while his remains were badly disfigured, enough of the original has been picked up to show that he was not an inhabitant of this world,� according to the Morning News account. Skeptics long have dismissed the account as a hoax. But in 1973, a United Press International reporter located a 91-year-old resident, Mary Evans, who recalled her parents visiting the crash site, and telling her that the body of the UFO pilot had been buried in the town cemetery.

3. February 25, 1942: The Battle of Los Angeles. In the early morning hours, radar operators spotted an unidentified object 120 miles west of Los Angeles and watched anxiously as it zoomed to within a few miles of the southern California coast and then inexplicably vanished from their screens. Sometime after that, an artillery officer along the coast reported what he described as 25 aircraft flying at 25,000 feet, and a few minutes later, other observers saw a balloon-like object carrying what appeared to be flares over nearby Santa Monica. Then, anti-aircraft batteries spotted what witnesses later described as swarms of objects flying at various altitudes, at speeds of up to 200 miles per hour. Fearing that the city was under attack by the Japanese, they fired 1,400 rounds of ammunition at the bogeys. But apparently, none of them hit anything, because no wreckage subsequently was found. Officials initially ascribed the incident to a combination of a false alarm and mass hysteria. But UFOlogists have speculated over the years that the gunners might have been shooting at extraterrestrial spacecraft.

4. January 7, 1948: Saucer Appears Over Kentucky. Early in the afternoon, dozens of residents of the Madisonville, KY area telephoned police to report that they had seen what a news account later described as “a circular object hovering overhead and giving off a brilliant glow.� State police then alerted Air Force officials at Goodman Field, an air base at Fort Knox. 15 minutes later, the airfield’s tower crew spotted the UFO as well, and used the radio to ask a squadron of P-51 fighters already aloft to investigate. Squadron leader Capt. Thomas Mantell, Jr. an expert pilot who had won the Distinguished Flying Cross for bravery during World War II, responded that he had spotted the UFO and was in pursuit. “I’m closing in now to take a good look,� Mantell reported in his last radio transmission at 3:15 p.m. “The thing looks metallic, and is tremendous in size.� Three minutes later, Mantell crashed and was killed. The official conclusion was that he had run out of oxygen, but UFOlogists have long doubted that explanation.

5. November 2, 1957: Fiery Object Seen Over Texas. At about 11 p.m. that evening in the town of Levelland, TX, police received 15 frantic phone calls from local residents about a mysterious object in the sky. In an Associated Press account, one of the witnesses, a 30-year-old farm worker and Korean War veteran, described the object as a “flash of light� flying overhead with a rush of wind, and said that it had apparently caused the lights and engine of his truck to go dead. Other witnesses described the craft as blue-green and egg-shaped, and said that it abruptly morphed into a fireball before rising straight up and disappearing.

6. Dec. 9, 1965: The Kecksburg Incident. Numerous residents of the small Pennsylvania village about 40 miles from Pittsburgh saw an object that some witnesses described as streaking green fire across the sky before it crashed in a local field, just before 6 p.m. that evening. Local resident Bill Bulebush, who was working on his car when he saw the object, described it as acorn-shaped and about twice the size of a Volkswagen Beetle. He said that it glided slowing before making a U-turn and going down. A local fireman, James Romansky, later described the downed craft as having hieroglyphic-like writing around its bottom ring. He only got to examine the craft for about 15 minutes, before government and military officials arrived and ordered everyone from the scene, and posted armed guards around the perimeter. Subsequently, there was speculation that the object may have been a Soviet satellite, but UFO researcher Clifford Stone, who spoke years later to former Soviet officials, said they insisted that the object had not been one of theirs. After investigative journalist Leslie Keen filed a Freedom of Information Act suit, NASA revealed in 2009 that documentation on the case was missing.

7. March 24, 1983: V-Shaped Lights in the Hudson Valley. The suburban area, about an hour’s drive north of New York City, was the scene of more than 5,000 UFO sightings from 1982 through 1986, perhaps one of the biggest clusters of incidents in history. One night, March 24, stands out because of the sheer volume—more than 300 residents called a local UFO organization’s hotline that night, reporting that they had seen large v-shaped array of lights that moved slowly and almost silently through the sky. Some witnesses got close enough to say that the craft was big enough to be a “flying city.� Hunt Middleton, a local resident who had just stepped off a bus from New York City at 7:30 p.m., described a row of six or seven extremely bright lights. “They were all blinking on and off, and were red, blue, green and white. I knew it was not any type of conventional aircraft because the lights were stationary. It was just hovering there in the sky.� Middleton said that he watched the object for five minutes, before going inside his house to get his family to come out and see it. By then, it was gone.

8. March 13, 1997: The Phoenix Lights. On that evening, thousands of people in Nevada and Arizona reportedly saw what many described as an immense, V-shaped object outlined by seven lights. Others, however, reported seeing orbs and triangles in the sky as well. Police departments in Phoenix, Tempe, Glendale and other Arizona cities were jammed with calls from residents. One witness, a man in his thirties named Dana Valentine, said that he and his father both watched as the lights passed 500 feet directly above them. "We could see the outline of a mass behind the lights, but you
couldn't actually see the mass," Valentine says. "It was more like a gray distortion of the night sky, wavy. I don't know exactly what it was, but I know it's not a technology the public has heard of before." The military later claimed that National Guard pilots had released diversionary flares while on a training run, but not everyone accepted that explanation.

9. July 14, 2001: UFO on the New Jersey Turnpike. Multiple witnesses, including a local off-duty police officer, watched in wonder as an array of yellow lights flew in formation in suburban New Jersey near New York City late in the evening of July 14, 2001 into the early morning of the following day. A short time later, at around 12:30 a.m., another witness, Carteret police Lt. Dan Tarrant, reportedly received a call at home from his 19-year-old daughter, who was out with friends and had seen strange lights in the sky. Tarrant told the Record and ABC News that he then stepped outside to take a look. As Tarrant subsequently told ABC News, what he saw was astounding: “16 golden-orange colored lights, several in a V-type formation. Others were scattered around the V." Tarrant told the Record, a local newspaper, that the mysterious lights flashed across the sky for about 10 minutes, then faded one-by-one into darkness.

10. January 8, 2008: The Stephensville Lights. In the evening, about out 40 local residents, including a local amateur civilian pilot and a police officer, witnessed a UFO that hovered over the farming community for about five minutes before streaking away into the night sky. Police officer Lee Roy Gaitan told National Public Radio that he was walking to his car when he saw a luminous object that reminded him of pictures of erupting volcanos, suspended 3,000 feet in the air. Another witness estimated that the UFO was a half-mile wide, a mile long, and� bigger than a Wal-Mart.�

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/c ... s-of-ufos/

How do we account for a Large number of eyewitnesses?

In the above accounts was everyone Lying, Making stuff up, or other?

Are large numbers of unidentified witness enough to confirm the existence of something?


6After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;(1 Corinthians 15:6)
Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25)
If the above verses confirm the existence of Jesus does the above events confirm the existence of UFOs?
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OpenYourEyes
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Re: Mass sightings of UFO's the value of eyewitness testimon

Post #21

Post by OpenYourEyes »

DanieltheDragon wrote:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/c ... s-of-ufos/

How do we account for a Large number of eyewitnesses?

In the above accounts was everyone Lying, Making stuff up, or other?

Are large numbers of unidentified witness enough to confirm the existence of something?


6After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;(1 Corinthians 15:6)
Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25)
If the above verses confirm the existence of Jesus does the above events confirm the existence of UFOs?"


My response:
Well, in general, if a large number of witnesses helps to validate a historical event then why cant it also validate modern-day events, esp. if they document it somebut? It obviously would not be scientific validation but then again neither is history but yet we go by it because its the best tool we have for dealing with the past just as personal or group experience may be the best we have to go by unless there is some reasonable suspicion of a falsehood.

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Post #22

Post by ecco »

[Replying to post 20 by tam]


Matthew 4
1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempteda by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.�

4Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’b �

5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6“If you are the Son of God,� he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“ ‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’c �
7Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’d �

8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9“All this I will give you,� he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.�
So, the devil can move jesus around and talk to him. But when you hear voices, you know it is jesus and not the devil talking - how?

DanieltheDragon
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Re: Mass sightings of UFO's the value of eyewitness testimon

Post #23

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 21 by OpenYourEyes]
unless there is some reasonable suspicion of a falsehood.
First I have an issue with the use of the term falsehood to describe an inaccurate witness account. That aside would the gospel account not be considered suspicious just like UFO accounts?

The events described seem to conflict with the observable reality we find ourselves in. For example, the account of masses of people rising from their graves and walking about town would trigger my suspicions.
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Re: Mass sightings of UFO's the value of eyewitness testimon

Post #24

Post by Zzyzx »

.
OpenYourEyes wrote: Well, in general, if a large number of witnesses helps to validate a historical event then why cant it also validate modern-day events, esp. if they document it somebut?
If I write a story that includes "there were a LOT of witnesses" does that mean the story is true? Does the story itself verify that there were a lot of witnesses?

A reasoning person should ask who the witnesses were and where their accounts of what they saw can be obtained. If I say that they are all dead and they left no surviving accounts, does that adequately address the question? Does / should that reduce the credibility of the claim (to someone not already predisposed to believe)?
OpenYourEyes wrote: It obviously would not be scientific validation but then again neither is history but yet we go by it
Exactly what about "history" do we "go by?" Do we make life decisions in the real world based upon historical stories? Does anyone decide to do or not do something based upon whether Caesar crossed the Rubicon as described?

Does it make any difference in our life that we do not know exactly what Abraham Lincoln said in the Gettysburg Address (there are multiple versions attributed to Lincoln himself)?

Do we "go by" (take action) based on what happened on D Day (June 6, 1944 Allied invasion of Normandy)? I am currently reading accounts by German soldiers that offer a perspective different from Allied accounts. Is it of importance, beyond historians interest, to know exactly what happened?

Attempting to equate Bible stories to historical accounts seems similar to comparing goldfish to basketballs.

OpenYourEyes wrote: because its the best tool we have for dealing with the past just as personal or group experience may be the best we have to go by unless there is some reasonable suspicion of a falsehood.
The best tools we have to support historical accounts are 1) archaeological evidence, 2) multiple disconnected accounts from wide-ranging sources, 3) contemporary witness accounts (preferably original documents).

Bible "miracle" stories (including "resurrection") fail on all three tools of analysis. Excuses such as "miracles don't leave evidence" is open to "Why claim a story is true if there is admittedly no evidence other than tales by unidentified writers decades or generations after the claimed events?"
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Re: Mass sightings of UFO's the value of eyewitness testimon

Post #25

Post by OpenYourEyes »

Zzyzx wrote:
If I write a story that includes "there were a LOT of witnesses" does that mean the story is true? Does the story itself verify that there were a lot of witnesses?

A reasoning person should ask who the witnesses were and where their accounts of what they saw can be obtained. If I say that they are all dead and they left no surviving accounts, does that adequately address the question? Does / should that reduce the credibility of the claim (to someone not already predisposed to believe)?"

My response:
As long as youre willing to draw the same conclusion as you would with a historical claim, then at least you are being consistent.

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Re: Mass sightings of UFO's the value of eyewitness testimon

Post #26

Post by Zzyzx »

.
OpenYourEyes wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: If I write a story that includes "there were a LOT of witnesses" does that mean the story is true? Does the story itself verify that there were a lot of witnesses?

A reasoning person should ask who the witnesses were and where their accounts of what they saw can be obtained. If I say that they are all dead and they left no surviving accounts, does that adequately address the question? Does / should that reduce the credibility of the claim (to someone not already predisposed to believe)?"
As long as youre willing to draw the same conclusion as you would with a historical claim, then at least you are being consistent.
I'm not drawing ANY conclusions, I just write the story and claim there were a lot of witnesses. Readers of the story might draw conclusions when the supposed witnesses are unavailable (or unidentifiable) and there are no records by any of them.

Would a reasoning person conclude that the tale was true because it claimed there were witnesses?

Can that question be addressed straight-up without evasion?
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Re: Mass sightings of UFO's the value of eyewitness testimon

Post #27

Post by OpenYourEyes »

Zzyzx wrote:
I'm not drawing ANY conclusions, I just write the story and claim there were a lot of witnesses. Readers of the story might draw conclusions when the supposed witnesses are unavailable (or unidentifiable) and there are no records by any of them.

Would a reasoning person conclude that the tale was true because it claimed there were witnesses?

Can that question be addressed straight-up without evasion?"

My response:
As a 'historical' fact, yes. Some accepted history are accepted based on nothing more but witness accounts and we use an literary analysis to look for artefact, collusion, interpolations, etc compared to modern day where we have live people to investigate. Think of role of witnesses as evidence in a court hearing.

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Re: Mass sightings of UFO's the value of eyewitness testimon

Post #28

Post by Zzyzx »

.
OpenYourEyes wrote:
Zzyzx wrote:
I'm not drawing ANY conclusions, I just write the story and claim there were a lot of witnesses. Readers of the story might draw conclusions when the supposed witnesses are unavailable (or unidentifiable) and there are no records by any of them.

Would a reasoning person conclude that the tale was true because it claimed there were witnesses?

Can that question be addressed straight-up without evasion?"
As a 'historical' fact, yes.
Is this to say "Yes, a reasoning person would conclude that the tale was true because it claimed there were witnesses"?

If so, whatever story I write should be declared true if I claim there were witnesses. Right?

My claim that there were witnesses should be taken as truthful. Right?

I trust that a reasoning person does NOT conclude that my claim "there were witnesses" renders the story true – and that a reasoning person does NOT conclude that my story about there being witnesses is true because the story says so.

It does not require great analytical or critical thinking skills to understand that a story may be true or may not be true regardless what claims it makes (or what claims are made for it by promoters).

Do any but the naive and gullible believe every story they read – and every claim that "there were many witnesses"?
OpenYourEyes wrote: Some accepted history are accepted based on nothing more but witness accounts and we use an literary analysis to look for artefact, collusion, interpolations, etc compared to modern day where we have live people to investigate.
Are "history" accounts of flying horses accepted based on witness accounts? Are "history" accounts of emperor gods accepted based on witness accounts?

Are modern decisions made in real life (other than religion) based upon ancient history witness accounts?
OpenYourEyes wrote: Think of role of witnesses as evidence in a court hearing.
Witnesses in court hearings are 1) physically / personally present, 2) giving testimony under oath and subject to perjury if testimony is found to be falsified, 3) cross examined to expose weaknesses in their testimony (deliberate or inadvertent), 4) often in contradiction with one another, 5) often wrong (as indicated by reversals of convictions based on witness testimony when direct evidence, such as DNA analysis, clears the convict and implicates someone else.
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Post #29

Post by tam »

DanieltheDragon wrote: [Replying to post 18 by tam]
I will give you a small example of something that I was able to confirm. You will probably think it is silly. But it is small so as to be simple. One time He warned me that there were bugs in what I was about to eat.
I understand this can only be true to you and there is no way anyone can verify this claim. I would like to ask how do you A.) identify and verify this is Jesus talking to you and B.) How do you differentiate this voice you heard between something you heard vs something you thought?

to clarify B.) how do you know this came from a source apart from yourself?
A) I learned to hear and to recognize His voice (Jaheshua, the Chosen One of Jah). I assume you know the voice of at least one of your parents, and you recognize them by their voices. You know the tone with which they speak, you know their mannerisms, you know them... and so you might even recognize right away if something is 'like' them that someone else has said was from them.

If I am uncertain that I have heard from Him, and even when I am not, then I can test the content (the inspired message) of what I heard, to be sure that it came from Him, and/or to be sure that I have understood correctly. (and we should test what we hear, or what others claim to have heard, because not every spirit that speaks is or is from Him) I can ask Him of course, and test against all that He has already taught me. I can test against love. I can also test against what is written, beginning with what He is written to have said. If what I have heard is against any of these, then it is not from Him.

If it is a lie, it is not from Him. He speaks the language of truth.

B) I know my own voice apart from His. I have mistaken His voice for my own in the past when I didn't know He could speak. He is not intrusive, so if I did not truly listen, I could just consider His voice to be background/random thoughts, that I could then dismiss or follow, thinking them my own. That doesn't happen much now, but again, if I am not certain I will ask, and test the content, as above.

Also: He teaches me. He teaches me things I do not know, would never have known on my own. I can say that with certainty because I know me.


(I would be remiss if I did not also say that the spirit He has given me also often bears witness with truth when I hear truth, from Him or from someone else ... and that same spirit will protest when I hear something false from someone, even from myself. That witness is more like a feeling, a stirring within, a fire burning.)



Peace to you,
your servant and slave of Christ,
tammy

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