Equating Jesus to fiction is irrational

[Tart]

For the past few years I have been seeing nonbelievers equate Jesus to any fiction of their choice. They say "Jesus is like Spider-man", "James Bond is just as real as Jesus", "We have the same about of evidence for King Arthur as we do for Jesus", etc... The list goes on and on.

So I want to give you guys a chance to prove this, if you believe these things.. I am willing to actually take these claims, and see if they can be justified, by comparing the evidence of any fiction of myth, to that of Jesus.. The historical evidence...

I am convinced that there is more historical evidence for Jesus then there is for ANY known fictional and/or mythological person. But i am willing for anyone to prove me wrong, and justify these comparisons.

For the purpose of discussion:
What fictional or mythological person is comparable to Jesus (bring your evidence)? Is there any fictional people who have the magnitude of historical evidence that Jesus does?

(and id allow anyone to question the validity of the evidence as well)

Does anyone really think Jesus should be equated to any fictional/mythological person?


If not, maybe we should stop making these claims...

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 1 by Tart]

I am convinced that there is more historical evidence for Jesus then there is for ANY known fictional and/or mythological person.

Are you sure you want to do this?



Okay then. Challenge accepted. Give us your historical evidence for Jesus, and I will use your very standards of evidence to prove that Spiderman exists. Oh I know for a fact that Spiderman is fictional, you know for a fact that Spiderman is fictional...but the point is, that the very historical evidence(s) you claim you can use for Jesus, I will use for Spiderman and in order to be logicall consistent, you will have to agree that Spiderman is then real.

Go on. Hit me with your best shot. I am fully confident that I can do what I said up above.

Ok, so this doesnt even need to go very far...

Is there anyone at all historical in the spider man comics?

Unlike Jesus, you asked and ye shall most definitely receive...

https://www.ranker.com/list/real-people ... ker-comics

Stan Lee has featured in Spiderman comics. As has Stephen Colbert. And Obama. And Jay Leno.

Notice that, when compared to the Bible, to Jesus, there is no question at all about these people existing. They are also far much closer in time to us, in fact they are all still alive. It's always been a historical methodology mainstay that the closer in time the event in question is to both the evidence being used to support and the person learning about it, the better. So a person in 2002 writing about 9/11 is considered (generally speaking) to be a better source than someone writing about 9/11 in 2018.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 19 by Tart]

Give us your historical evidence for Jesus, and I will use your very standards of evidence to prove that Spiderman exists.

Is there anyone at all historical in the spider man comics?

So, you are simply going to dodge the challenge. Not surprising really. You have consistently avoided providing historical evidence for Jesus. You have to wonder why.

[Tart]

[Replying to post 1 by Tart]

I am convinced that there is more historical evidence for Jesus then there is for ANY known fictional and/or mythological person.

Are you sure you want to do this?



Okay then. Challenge accepted. Give us your historical evidence for Jesus, and I will use your very standards of evidence to prove that Spiderman exists. Oh I know for a fact that Spiderman is fictional, you know for a fact that Spiderman is fictional...but the point is, that the very historical evidence(s) you claim you can use for Jesus, I will use for Spiderman and in order to be logicall consistent, you will have to agree that Spiderman is then real.

Go on. Hit me with your best shot. I am fully confident that I can do what I said up above.

Ok, so this doesnt even need to go very far...

Is there anyone at all historical in the spider man comics?

Unlike Jesus, you asked and ye shall most definitely receive...

https://www.ranker.com/list/real-people ... ker-comics

Stan Lee has featured in Spiderman comics. As has Stephen Colbert. And Obama. And Jay Leno.

Notice that, when compared to the Bible, to Jesus, there is no question at all about these people existing. They are also far much closer in time to us, in fact they are all still alive. It's always been a historical methodology mainstay that the closer in time the event in question is to both the evidence being used to support and the person learning about it, the better. So a person in 2002 writing about 9/11 is considered (generally speaking) to be a better source than someone writing about 9/11 in 2018.

Ok so the historical evidence for spider-man is 4 people have been featured in the comics... And do you have any more historical evidence? Or is that it? For example, do real people confess to knowing spider man? Does he have any real living family? Do any historians claim or suggest spider man existed? Does any real people, who are in the comic, claim to have known spider man personally, being in his presence?

What does Stan Lee, Stephen Colbert. And Obama. And Jay Leno. Say about spider-man?

Did an entire population of people believe Spider-man existed?

[Tart]

[Replying to post 19 by Tart]

Give us your historical evidence for Jesus, and I will use your very standards of evidence to prove that Spiderman exists.

Is there anyone at all historical in the spider man comics?

So, you are simply going to dodge the challenge. Not surprising really. You have consistently avoided providing historical evidence for Jesus. You have to wonder why.

Ok here is one post i mentioned the historical evidence (post 13)
viewtopic.php?t=34637&start=10

[Tart]

[Replying to post 1 by Tart]

How about Prester John?

I'm not willing to educate myself enough to argue the case. I'm just throwing Prester John's hat in the ring as a possible subject of discussion. If you're looking for a fictional person who might have better evidence than Jesus, Prester John might be one such.

Whats the evidence for Prester John?

[William]

[Replying to post 23 by Tart]

For example, does real people confess to knowing spider man?

It is not so much confession as it is profession. Obviously in both cases the stories are written by real people. It has already been shown why those in control of biblical production and distribution would want to present the fiction as factual.

Indeed, that is the whole crux of the matter which you fail to want to consider. The failure amounts to turning a blind eye. Your direction of approach is cart before the horse, through the assumption (or being likewise educated) that the fiction is fact at the go-get. That simply cannot be established, and will remain that way, even if the horse is correctly placed.

Faith is simply not a great device in which to use to argue fact with.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 24 by Tart]

Ok here is one post i mentioned the historical evidence (post 13)
viewtopic.php?t=34637&start=10

From that post:

For now, I will leave out the extra-biblical sources, while there are many of them and as i said before, I havent found a single source from antiquity supporting Jesus as myth or fictional, and in fact scholars agree there is no sources from antiquity that suggest Jesus didnt exist...

The extra-biblical sources are the evidence for an historical Jesus. The Bible is the fiction you are using to establish that one of its characters is not fictional. Try again with those many extra-biblical sources.

[Tart]

[Replying to post 24 by Tart]

Ok here is one post i mentioned the historical evidence (post 13)
viewtopic.php?t=34637&start=10

From that post:

For now, I will leave out the extra-biblical sources, while there are many of them and as i said before, I havent found a single source from antiquity supporting Jesus as myth or fictional, and in fact scholars agree there is no sources from antiquity that suggest Jesus didnt exist...

The extra-biblical sources are the evidence for an historical Jesus. The Bible is the fiction you are using to establish that one of its characters is not fictional. Try again with those many extra-biblical sources.

Ok, if the Bible is fiction, do you have any problems with the evidence i mentioned? Surely you have something to contest then, right?

[Tart]

[Replying to post 23 by Tart]

For example, does real people confess to knowing spider man?

It is not so much confession as it is profession. Obviously in both cases the stories are written by real people. It has already been shown why those in control of biblical production and distribution would want to present the fiction as factual.

Indeed, that is the whole crux of the matter which you fail to want to consider. The failure amounts to turning a blind eye. Your direction of approach is cart before the horse, through the assumption (or being likewise educated) that the fiction is fact at the go-get. That simply cannot be established, and will remain that way, even if the horse is correctly placed.

Faith is simply not a great device in which to use to argue fact with.

If you have any problems with the evidence i present, feel free to say so, and give your reasoning why...

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 28 by Tart]

Ok, if the Bible is fiction, do you have any problems with the evidence i mentioned?

Please quit with the diversionary tactics and provide the extra-biblical evidence.