Pharisees' request for a sign from the Messiah

[rstrats]

When responding to the Pharisees' request for a sign, why do you suppose the Messiah made the specific point that He would be in the "heart of the earth" for 3 days and 3 nights?

[rstrats]

I don't know either. It would be wrong of the video to give an answer it doesn't have.

Thus my comment to The Nice Centurion and to you.

[TRANSPONDER]

I don't know either. It would be wrong of the video to give an answer it doesn't have.

Thus my comment to The Nice Centurion and to you.

Of course. I am just making some suggestions as to why Jonah is significant in the resurrection, and whether that was significant in the Pharisee resurrection or whether it was just a Christian 'prophetic' thing.

[rstrats]

When responding to the Pharisees' request for a sign, why do you suppose the Messiah made the specific point that He would be in the "heart of the earth" for 3 days and 3 nights?

In ancient Israel dying on Friday before sundown and rising Sunday early morning would have been three days and three nights.

A day ends (and the next day begins) at sundown. Jesus died during the day on Friday – that is day/night 1. He was dead when the sun went down on Friday, so that was day/night 2. He was still dead when the sun went down on Saturday, brings us into day/night 3.

I understand that is not how modern Americans keep track of time. Jesus died at 3:00 PM on Friday and rose sometime before 6:30 AM on Sunday. That’s 51 ½ hours, and we would probably round that down to 2 days and 2 nights.

Both ways of keeping track of time are valid. They are just different.

That's an issue for a different topic. Maybe you might start one.

Jesus said he would be in the earth 3 days and 3 nights because, in the Gospels, that is how long he was in the earth according to the way people kept track of time in that culture.

But why that length of time for His prophesy? Was there something significant about that timeline?

[TRANSPONDER]

When responding to the Pharisees' request for a sign, why do you suppose the Messiah made the specific point that He would be in the "heart of the earth" for 3 days and 3 nights?

In ancient Israel dying on Friday before sundown and rising Sunday early morning would have been three days and three nights.

A day ends (and the next day begins) at sundown. Jesus died during the day on Friday – that is day/night 1. He was dead when the sun went down on Friday, so that was day/night 2. He was still dead when the sun went down on Saturday, brings us into day/night 3.

I understand that is not how modern Americans keep track of time. Jesus died at 3:00 PM on Friday and rose sometime before 6:30 AM on Sunday. That’s 51 ½ hours, and we would probably round that down to 2 days and 2 nights.

Both ways of keeping track of time are valid. They are just different.

That's an issue for a different topic. Maybe you might start one.

Jesus said he would be in the earth 3 days and 3 nights because, in the Gospels, that is how long he was in the earth according to the way people kept track of time in that culture.

But why that length of time for His prophesy? Was there something significant about that timeline?

After some searching, I came up with an idea from someone who claimed to have a Phd who said that the figure is symbolic. 3 days is a conventional number for something to be accomplished as 40 days symbolises a significant change. We hardlt expect 40 days to be exact but is more a symbolic month -long period. It contrasted it with one day signifying something not accomplished. While one might argue, I think this is a decent idea that 3 days is 'ballpark'. Matthew, being obsessed with the OT as a reliable prelude to Jesus, makes it three days (which is isn't, for all I found some astonishing lies and trumpery about what the Bible says from people you'd think should be honest) and maybe the others are content that last thing Friday to half way through Sunday is near enough three days.

Of course Matthew got the Jonah symbol for resurrection fromQ just as Luke did, but then they didn't make up all of this stuff.

I'm still curious as to whether Jonah was a real symbol of Jewish resurrection - belief or whether this is christian. The Talpiot tomb graffiti is claimed by some to be 1s c Christian, and the inscription is in Greek, not aramaic.

[bjs1]

But why that length of time for His prophesy? Was there something significant about that timeline?

No, not anything that is widely accepted as accurate. I could give you a few answers, and I am sure you can find somebody out there willing to argue some meaning or another, but I think that you are looking for connections that don't exist. The mention of Jonah is presented as little more than a convenient comparison.

3 was sometimes used as a number of completes. It could mean that Jesus' work was completely done, but that is really pushing the analogy. 12 was the more significant number of completeness in that culture. 7 was the number of God. Both of those numbers were more symbolically important. If Jesus was trying to say something significant about the timeline beyond "it will be three days" then he probably would have used a different number.

Obviously there could be something I am missing, but I can that say no theory about timeline has gained acceptance among a significant number of experts. Most likely there is just nothing there.

[TRANSPONDER]

Without even putting on y theist hat, I'm wondering whether the death and resurrection -scenario was related to the three day prophecy or the prophecy (like the discovery of the 'prophecy' of the virgin birth) was fitted to the event. After all the death being over day before the Sabbath, the sabbath itself and the discovery of the resurrection on the day after the sabbath covers three days, though not three full days.

But then neither was Jonah. The fish didn't eat him first thing ion the first day and throw him up on the beach last thing on the third day, for sure, reasonably, so if Jonah's three days weren't three 24 hours, why should Jesus' be?

[rstrats]

No, not anything that is widely accepted as accurate. I could give you a few answers, and I am sure you can find somebody out there willing to argue some meaning or another, but I think that you are looking for connections that don't exist. The mention of Jonah is presented as little more than a convenient comparison.

What do you think the scribes and Pharisees were looking for when they asked for a sign?

[TRANSPONDER]

No, not anything that is widely accepted as accurate. I could give you a few answers, and I am sure you can find somebody out there willing to argue some meaning or another, but I think that you are looking for connections that don't exist. The mention of Jonah is presented as little more than a convenient comparison.

What do you think the scribes and Pharisees were looking for when they asked for a sign?

That's obvious. Jesus had been announcing the impending coming of the Kingdom of God. They wanted a divine Sign that this was going to happen, A comet or volcano exploding or the Jordan turning red or something.

Jesus says all they'll get is the three day resurrection. Mind he also tells them there are signs and they should be able to tell, like they can tell the coming weather, but hey, who says that the Gospels have to make sense?

Matthew 16.[2] He answered them, "When it is evening, you say, `It will be fair weather; for the sky is red. ' [3] And in the morning, `It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening. ' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.

But then he says there aren't going to be any signs.

Matthew 12.38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

But there we are - like many Bible apologists I have encountered, Matthew seems unable to keep track of his own argument.

[bjs1]

What do you think the scribes and Pharisees were looking for when they asked for a sign?

I imagine that they were looking for a miracle. They wanted a spectacle of some kind. They wanted to see Jesus jump off a high building and be caught by angels, or turn stones in to bread or something like that. Herod wanted the same from Jesus during the last week of Jesus' life.

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #10]
Perhaps . . . Perhaps the centurions who had the mission to guard Jesus tomb, had their free weekend.
So they left their place on friday to go home and celebrate Easter and celebrate the resurrection of Christ!

Do you not too think so?