Prostitutes-what to do

[Greatest I Am]

Prostitutes must have a special place in Heaven.

Prostitutes. male or female, are products of abuse by our societies. These young people come out of homes where physical, mental and sexual abuse has occurred. They are basically forced from their environment to the streets.

The societal response to these abused people is rather strange. We create them and then use our police and laws to further abuse our sons and daughters legally. We do provide social services on occasion but most of our response is negative. We drive them to a lifestyle of drugs and slavery under pimps and use police to try to hide our own shame in a forgotten cell.

What should people do. Having created this trade, should we now use them and abuse them more or should we let them starve or find some other criminal activity in order to live.

Are we paying them for our gratification or is the payment to ease our conscience for creating them.
Do some of us use them with compassion because we recognize that they are our creation? Or am I trying to justify their existence. In countries where poverty is rampant and children are sold by their own parents, can it be said that this is good in order to maintain a family structure. Is it OK to go to some of these places of poverty and contribute to their economy. Not availing ourselves of this product do we help the country to stay poor.
The same weird situation exists where child labor occurs. If we do not buy the carpet woven by the eight year old, does his family then go hungry.

There is good and evil in everything, can we clear up the view of this problem and know the best course of action?

Does survival of the fittest include the ability to use and abuse our own children. We tend to continue with these unsightly customs regardless of the wealth of a given nation. Would wealth and education put an end to these practices? It appears not.

Question for debate.
Is it better to avail one’s self of the services of a prostitute to help them survive, or is there a better way.

Please do not say things like ending poverty without telling us how.
Impossible solutions are not solutions.

Regards
DL

[mister_lee]

Mister_Lee,

I understand and sympathize with your position. I will respond without intending to be negative or critical.

Positivity is always appreciaited

My first point is a question that seems basic to the discussion – Are women capable of making their own decisions?

Absolutely, but that is answer as general as the question itself. Everyone is capable of making his or her own decisions. Sometimes, due to experiences in life, people need guidence in getting in touch with oneself. I'm careful when dealing in generalities, because not every person nor every situation falls under such an umbrella.

On the other hand, like drugs, legalization could potential lessen the problem, weeding out those who do things for the thrill of doing something deemed as wrong, at least in terms of legality.

This has been shown to be true in countries that have de-criminalized some of the “victimless crimes” (those without a directly affected victim).

I'm not oppossed to having legal prostitution. We have legal prostitution. What would concern me is widespread legalization because of the crime associated with the behavior. If by legalization we maintain a strict enforcement regarding placement, then if it is for the collective betterment of society, I'm more than happy to lend my support.

You have to understand though, when you have a daughter, or a son I suppose since male prostitution is prevalent as well, it is difficult to be objective because I for one imagine my daughter in the situation and my blood boils.

My stomach is a little uneasy imagining a world where such a thing could be legal, like a grocery store, and not taboo, like the places on the outskirts of Nevada that have tumbleweeds rollin' by and are less reality in our world.

We may personally disagree with many choices that people make – citing gambling to drinking alcohol to smoking tobacco. Our action should ethically be to avoid them for ourselves and perhaps speak against them, but to allow others the right to do as they wish (and not pass laws to enforce our version of morality).

As I said, the uneasiness comes from having a daughter and having her see these women as examples. It's my job to raise her, however, and as I said, if it can be shown through examination to be beneficial for society as a whole, then regardless of personal feelings I would support it.

From a legal standpoint, I don't like that we crowd our jails and prisons with these women, something we pay for with our tax dollars. Jails and prisons should be for real criminals.

“Jails and prisons should be for real criminals.” I agree totally.

If prostitutes are not “real criminals”, why are they criminals at all? If laws exist that criminalize behavior, we should have a darn good reason for passing those laws. Once we pass laws they should be enforced fairly and equitably to all concerned.

We cannot reasonably say that we oppose legalization of prostitution and other “victimless crimes” while protesting filling jails with people who are not “real criminals”.

You make a good point here. I think this is really where the problem lies. It's not legal so we have to lock them up. Maybe there is a happy medium where we can maintain the legal status, but prevent serious consequences. Compromise is going to be the best possible solution in this country.

But as far as legalizing it? In theory, it could be a good thing for the women, but there are other factors to consider. First, it is terrible for marriage and relationships because it would give men an outlet to go to when they are not satisfied at home.

There are ALWSYS “outlets to go to when they [men] are not satisfied at home” that do not include prostitution. Those outlets are often known as women.

Do we consider ourselves capable of deciding what is “best” for marriages? Is it the duty or right of society to eliminate “alternatives” for dissatisfied married men? Does this include eliminating available non-prostitute women?

Well, I was viewing the subject objectively, and thinking of possible objections, negatives to the premise of legalizing prostitution. Yes, there will always be outlets, but I know, and you know, that if it were easier more men might dabble and taste the forbidden fruit. I'm just speculating but we can't look at anything from one perspective. If you or I feel it is best to legalize prostitution, there is someone on the other side that feels differently. Just as we feel morality shouldn't been inflicted upon others, so also should we realize that we can't inflict our own brand upon them.

I'm no judge, but I'm not going to sit here and say that we are not capable of deciding what is best for a marriage. We have plenty of data to look at and determine what works best, and what doesn't. We, as individuals in a society, can't make a marriage work for a person, but we can look at data, interpret it, and give us summary conclusion as to what works, and what doesn't.

But, no it is not necessarily the job of society to eliminate alternatives, unless that means stopping the degradation of a woman by improving her self esteem and building in her a sense of self worth, something prostitution has shown to cause an opposite effect.

Obviously, we can't eliminate all women, but there is nothing wrong with trying to improve the lives of others, as long as there is no infringement on rights. Women can choose this life is they want, but many do so, not because they want to or like to, but because they feel nothing inside. Obviously this doesn't speak to all prostitutes, but I think it's safe to assume the majority wouldn't choose the life is they had other options.

We just need more programs and support outside of political agenda. Then we can get to the root of the problem. Legalizing prostitution at best would be a temporary band-aid. There is so much that can happen with what's going on now, that it might take something radical to help the situation. The positive is that there would be a control in terms of disease. That's something I'm all for, but I still think it takes getting to the root of the problem.

What, exactly and practically, can be done to reduce the amount of prostitution? Should reduction of prostitution be a low, moderate, medium or high priority in our society?

It all starts from the ground up. The first step in reducing anything is to attack the root. The root is the parents. In our society, the gap between the rich, the middle-class, and the poor continues to widen. There are more millionaires in this country than ever before, and yet the median income levels are relatively the same. i'll try to find some data to support this.

We have to improve the homes that children grow up in, the school systems, and the overall moral of all. We see the world as bleak and meaningless, even those that go to church, many are without hope once they walk out the doors of church. We need to spread love and hope.

I have no idea how to do this, but it starts with you, and me, and everyone else we encounter. It takes individuals willing to change and not accept things as they are.

With my daughter's mother, it took taking her in after being separated and taking an active role in her recovery. It's one of the most difficult things I've done in my life, living with an ex, especially one that has done terrible things to me. She took a toll on me mentally and physically but seeing her now, a year and a half after I made the choice, I've seen the fruits of my work.

Congratulations and condolences.

Thanks

She just got back into school, she is dedicated as a Christian, and has taken a more positive approach to it, trying to help others and being extremely tolerant. Even though I'm not a Christian in the same way she is, I can't deny the impact of her faith in her life. She's not perfect and I'd never take her back, but if you saw how she was and how she is now, it is remarkable. She's always been a Christian, but she was intolerant of anyone that didn't share her belief.

Would you care to comment on the effect of her faith upon her decision to go into prostitution and in her decision to find another source of income?

Her faith was suppressed beneath a cloud of self-hatred, intensified by drugs and alcohol. She's also a very weak-minded person and is easily lead around by others, or misled. When i look at the root of her issues, it goes back to her parents. Her parents had 4 kids and they locked themselves in their room and left the kids to learn from the world. As we've seen, the world is not a good learning module unless you have a well-rounded person to guide you through. What she lacked from her father she tried to find by having sex with anyone that wanted it. A natural progression from this is to make money while doing it. "If i'm going to be used, I might as well get paid," would be a good example of the mindset.

Now that she's filled her heart with love, somewhat at least, she's very tolerant. She has friends that are homosexual and even those of other religions. So helping these women without paying them to degrade themselves, is possible. I don't know if I'd recommend taking them into your home, but whatever you can do. It's just important that we build them up positively and help them see how beautiful they are as women, as mothers. I don't think that's possible using them like a toy. I've been used, never sexually, but I know it's not a good feeling.

It would seem as though “love one another” would be good medicine for a lot of problems.

I could go on, but I'll respond to the earlier question as to the root of the issue later, at least from my perspective in regards to those I've known. But for now, I think you said it best and I'll leave it at that:

LOVE ONE ANOTHER...

[mister_lee]

Zzyzx wrote:

Mister_Lee,

I understand and sympathize with your position. I will respond without intending to be negative or critical.

My first point is a question that seems basic to the discussion – Are women capable of making their own decisions?

On the other hand, like drugs, legalization could potential lessen the problem, weeding out those who do things for the thrill of doing something deemed as wrong, at least in terms of legality.

This has been shown to be true in countries that have de-criminalized some of the “victimless crimes” (those without a directly affected victim).

My stomach is a little uneasy imagining a world where such a thing could be legal, like a grocery store, and not taboo, like the places on the outskirts of Nevada that have tumbleweeds rollin' by and are less reality in our world.

We may personally disagree with many choices that people make – citing gambling to drinking alcohol to smoking tobacco. Our action should ethically be to avoid them for ourselves and perhaps speak against them, but to allow others the right to do as they wish (and not pass laws to enforce our version of morality).

From a legal standpoint, I don't like that we crowd our jails and prisons with these women, something we pay for with our tax dollars. Jails and prisons should be for real criminals.

“Jails and prisons should be for real criminals.” I agree totally.

If prostitutes are not “real criminals”, why are they criminals at all? If laws exist that criminalize behavior, we should have a darn good reason for passing those laws. Once we pass laws they should be enforced fairly and equitably to all concerned.

We cannot reasonably say that we oppose legalization of prostitution and other “victimless crimes” while protesting filling jails with people who are not “real criminals”.

But as far as legalizing it? In theory, it could be a good thing for the women, but there are other factors to consider. First, it is terrible for marriage and relationships because it would give men an outlet to go to when they are not satisfied at home.

There are ALWSYS “outlets to go to when they [men] are not satisfied at home” that do not include prostitution. Those outlets are often known as women.

Do we consider ourselves capable of deciding what is “best” for marriages? Is it the duty or right of society to eliminate “alternatives” for dissatisfied married men? Does this include eliminating available non-prostitute women?

We just need more programs and support outside of political agenda. Then we can get to the root of the problem. Legalizing prostitution at best would be a temporary band-aid. There is so much that can happen with what's going on now, that it might take something radical to help the situation. The positive is that there would be a control in terms of disease. That's something I'm all for, but I still think it takes getting to the root of the problem.

What, exactly and practically, can be done to reduce the amount of prostitution? Should reduction of prostitution be a low, moderate, medium or high priority in our society?

With my daughter's mother, it took taking her in after being separated and taking an active role in her recovery. It's one of the most difficult things I've done in my life, living with an ex, especially one that has done terrible things to me. She took a toll on me mentally and physically but seeing her now, a year and a half after I made the choice, I've seen the fruits of my work.

Congratulations and condolences.

She just got back into school, she is dedicated as a Christian, and has taken a more positive approach to it, trying to help others and being extremely tolerant. Even though I'm not a Christian in the same way she is, I can't deny the impact of her faith in her life. She's not perfect and I'd never take her back, but if you saw how she was and how she is now, it is remarkable. She's always been a Christian, but she was intolerant of anyone that didn't share her belief.

Would you care to comment on the effect of her faith upon her decision to go into prostitution and in her decision to find another source of income?

Now that she's filled her heart with love, somewhat at least, she's very tolerant. She has friends that are homosexual and even those of other religions. So helping these women without paying them to degrade themselves, is possible. I don't know if I'd recommend taking them into your home, but whatever you can do. It's just important that we build them up positively and help them see how beautiful they are as women, as mothers. I don't think that's possible using them like a toy. I've been used, never sexually, but I know it's not a good feeling.

It would seem as though “love one another” would be good medicine for a lot of problems.[/quote]

[Greatest I Am]

Are women capable of making their own decisions?

I would hope so.

We may personally disagree with many choices that people make – citing gambling to drinking alcohol to smoking tobacco. Our action should ethically be to avoid them for ourselves and perhaps speak against them, but to allow others the right to do as they wish (and not pass laws to enforce our version of morality).

Actually, I tend to agree with this. Though I think there is a minimum level of morality that must be enforced by the government (eg murder, rape, stealing).

“Jails and prisons should be for real criminals.” I agree totally.

I agree also. I was once on a jury selection for a trial involving possession of marijuana. During the entire time I was thinking, "What a waste of time and money! We're spending so many man-hours of peoples' lives simply because someone is accused of having pot!?" During the questioning, I was so tempted to say "I object to being involved in such a frivolous case."

If laws exist that criminalize behavior, we should have a darn good reason for passing those laws.

I agree also.

There are ALWSYS “outlets to go to when they [men] are not satisfied at home” that do not include prostitution. Those outlets are often known as women.

But the difference with prostitutes is that once it's done, it's over with. No emotional ties, no ambiguity if there is a relationship. The prostitute does not wonder if he loves her or how they can have a romantic relationship together.

What, exactly and practically, can be done to reduce the amount of prostitution?

I was thinking more about this. The issue is a supply and demand problem. So both sides needs to be considered.

In terms of demand, men have a high sex drive. Men will find some way to satisfy this drive. I don't think it'll be easy to limit all men to only fulfill their sex drive in "appropriate" ways.

In terms of supply, women want a way to make money. Prostitution is one of the easiest ways to make a lot of money with very little work and resources. If such an easy way to make money is available, it won't be easy to stop them from taking advantage of it.

Should reduction of prostitution be a low, moderate, medium or high priority in our society?

As a national priority, I would consider it low.

It is at the low scale at present.
It should be at the high end because of it's connection to abuse of children and the effects on the home.
Strange that most consumers of this product have no issues with the age of the prostitute, in fact the younger the better in most cases. They forget that that is someones child. They have no qualms whatsoever as long as it is not their own offspring.
Double standards

Regards
DL

[mister_lee]

Zzyzx wrote:

Mister_Lee,

I understand and sympathize with your position. I will respond without intending to be negative or critical.

Positivity is always appreciated

My first point is a question that seems basic to the discussion – Are women capable of making their own decisions?

Absolutely, but that is answer as general as the question itself. Everyone is capable of making his or her own decisions. Sometimes, due to experiences in life, people need guidance in getting in touch with oneself. I'm careful when dealing in generalities, because not every person nor every situation falls under such an umbrella.

On the other hand, like drugs, legalization could potential lessen the problem, weeding out those who do things for the thrill of doing something deemed as wrong, at least in terms of legality.

This has been shown to be true in countries that have de-criminalized some of the “victimless crimes” (those without a directly affected victim).

I'm not opposed to having legal prostitution. We have legal prostitution. What would concern me is widespread legalization because of the crime associated with the behavior. If by legalization we maintain a strict enforcement regarding placement, then if it is for the collective betterment of society, I'm more than happy to lend my support.

You have to understand though, when you have a daughter, or a son I suppose since male prostitution is prevalent as well, it is difficult to be objective because I for one imagine my daughter in the situation and my blood boils.

My stomach is a little uneasy imagining a world where such a thing could be legal, like a grocery store, and not taboo, like the places on the outskirts of Nevada that have tumbleweeds rollin' by and are less reality in our world.

We may personally disagree with many choices that people make – citing gambling to drinking alcohol to smoking tobacco. Our action should ethically be to avoid them for ourselves and perhaps speak against them, but to allow others the right to do as they wish (and not pass laws to enforce our version of morality).

As I said, the uneasiness comes from having a daughter and having her see these women as examples. It's my job to raise her, however, and as I said, if it can be shown through examination to be beneficial for society as a whole, then regardless of personal feelings I would support it.

From a legal standpoint, I don't like that we crowd our jails and prisons with these women, something we pay for with our tax dollars. Jails and prisons should be for real criminals.

“Jails and prisons should be for real criminals.” I agree totally.

If prostitutes are not “real criminals”, why are they criminals at all? If laws exist that criminalize behavior, we should have a darn good reason for passing those laws. Once we pass laws they should be enforced fairly and equitably to all concerned.

We cannot reasonably say that we oppose legalization of prostitution and other “victimless crimes” while protesting filling jails with people who are not “real criminals”.

You make a good point here. I think this is really where the problem lies. It's not legal so we have to lock them up. Maybe there is a happy medium where we can maintain the legal status, but prevent serious consequences. Compromise is going to be the best possible solution in this country.

But as far as legalizing it? In theory, it could be a good thing for the women, but there are other factors to consider. First, it is terrible for marriage and relationships because it would give men an outlet to go to when they are not satisfied at home.

There are ALWSYS “outlets to go to when they [men] are not satisfied at home” that do not include prostitution. Those outlets are often known as women.

Do we consider ourselves capable of deciding what is “best” for marriages? Is it the duty or right of society to eliminate “alternatives” for dissatisfied married men? Does this include eliminating available non-prostitute women?

Well, I was viewing the subject objectively, and thinking of possible objections, negatives to the premise of legalizing prostitution. Yes, there will always be outlets, but I know, and you know, that if it were easier more men might dabble and taste the forbidden fruit. I'm just speculating but we can't look at anything from one perspective. If you or I feel it is best to legalize prostitution, there is someone on the other side that feels differently. Just as we feel morality shouldn't been inflicted upon others, so also should we realize that we can't inflict our own brand upon them.

I'm no judge. I'm not going to sit here and say that we are not capable of deciding what is best for a marriage. We have plenty of data to look at and determine what works best, and what doesn't. We, as individuals in a society, can't make a marriage work for a person, but we can look at data, interpret it, and give summary conclusion as to what works, and what doesn't.

But, no it is not necessarily the job of society to eliminate alternatives, unless that means stopping the degradation of a woman by improving her self esteem and building in her a sense of self worth, something prostitution has shown to cause an opposite effect.

Obviously, we can't eliminate all women, but there is nothing wrong with trying to improve the lives of others, as long as there is no infringement on rights. Women can choose this life is they want, but many do so, not because they want to or like to, but because they feel nothing inside. Obviously this doesn't speak to all prostitutes, but I think it's safe to assume the majority wouldn't; choose the life is they had other options.

We just need more programs and support outside of political agenda. Then we can get to the root of the problem. Legalizing prostitution at best would be a temporary band-aid. There is so much that can happen with what's going on now, that it might take something radical to help the situation. The positive is that there would be a control in terms of disease. That's something I'm all for, but I still think it takes getting to the root of the problem.

What, exactly and practically, can be done to reduce the amount of prostitution? Should reduction of prostitution be a low, moderate, medium or high priority in our society?

It all starts from the ground up. The first step in reducing anything is to attack the root. The root is the parents. In our society, the gap between the rich, the middle-class, and the poor continues to widen. There are more millionaires in this country than ever before, and yet the median income levels are relatively the same. i'll try to find some data to support this.

We have to improve the homes that children grow up in, the school systems, and the overall moral of all. We see the world as bleak and meaningless, even those that go to church, many are without hope once they walk out the doors of church. We need to spread love and hope.

I have no idea how to do this, but it starts with you, and me, and everyone else we encounter. It takes individuals willing to change and not accept things as they are.

With my daughter's mother, it took taking her in after being separated and taking an active role in her recovery. It's one of the most difficult things I've done in my life, living with an ex, especially one that has done terrible things to me. She took a toll on me mentally and physically but seeing her now, a year and a half after I made the choice, I've seen the fruits of my work.

Congratulations and condolences.

Thanks

She just got back into school, she is dedicated as a Christian, and has taken a more positive approach to it, trying to help others and being extremely tolerant. Even though I'm not a Christian in the same way she is, I can't deny the impact of her faith in her life. She's not perfect and I'd never take her back, but if you saw how she was and how she is now, it is remarkable. She's always been a Christian, but she was intolerant of anyone that didn't share her belief.

Would you care to comment on the effect of her faith upon her decision to go into prostitution and in her decision to find another source of income?

Her faith was suppressed beneath a cloud of self-hatred, intensified by drugs and alcohol. She's also a very weak-minded person and is easily lead around by others, or misled. When i look at the root of her issues, it goes back to her parents. Her parents had 4 kids and they locked themselves in their room and left the kids to learn from the world. As we've seen, the world is not a good learning module unless you have a well-rounded person to guide you through. What she lacked from her father she tried to find by having sex with anyone that wanted it. A natural progression from this is to make money while doing it. "If i'm going to be used, I might as well get paid," would be a good example of the mindset.

Now that she's filled her heart with love, somewhat at least, she's very tolerant. She has friends that are homosexual and even those of other religions. So helping these women without paying them to degrade themselves, is possible. I don't know if I'd recommend taking them into your home, but whatever you can do. It's just important that we build them up positively and help them see how beautiful they are as women, as mothers. I don't think that's possible using them like a toy. I've been used, never sexually, but I know it's not a good feeling.

It would seem as though “love one another” would be good medicine for a lot of problems.[/quote]

I could go on, but I'll respond to the earlier question as to the root of the issue, at least from my perspective in regards to those I've known. But for now, I think you said it best and I'll leave it at that:

LOVE ONE ANOTHER...