Does Fundamentalism impede learning?

[Zzyzx]

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Does Fundamentalism impede learning?

When I taught college / university geology and Earth science courses, many Fundamentalist Christian students refused to even consider information that conflicted with what their bible or their preacher said. The Earth “was created by god� relatively recently (perhaps 4004 BCE as per Archbishop Ussher’s calculations from genealogy), fossils were “put in rocks by the devil to confuse man�, there was a worldwide flood (in spite of the need for one billion cubic miles of water beyond the Earth’s supply, and in spite of no evidence to indicate that the story is true), etc.

Those students often regurgitated answers on tests to earn a grade, but steadfastly maintained their original ideas (apparently – though they may have changed since, particularly if they pursued the study of sciences).

In these debates we observe Literalists insisting that donkeys and snakes converse with humans, that people can live inside fish, that a lunch bucket lunch can be “blessed� and serve multitudes, that people walk on water, that water magically turns into water, that seas part and storms calm on command, and that dead bodies come back to life after days in the grave – all at least “once upon a time in a land far away�.

We know that religion has persecuted those who seek truthful answers to questions about nature – example Galileo and Socrates – and present anti-education / anti-science / anti-intellectual bent of many fundamentalist religious “leaders� (and their followers).

Question for debate:

Does Fundamentalism impede about nature and the real world we inhabit if the information conflicts with religious "teachings"?

[otseng]

Joey, I must reply with His Words. I am instructed to do so. My words, my replies, my ideas hold no weight. They are unimportant. His Words hold truth and our salvation. His words alone.

Moderator warning:

Again, this is a debating forum, not simply a place to quote the Bible without any regard to logically presenting a case. Please review the guidelines.

[whirlwind]

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That isn't completely true Scotracer. Many of us believe. Many of us know. Many never will. For some it's "not gonna happen." For some that think "it's not gonna happen," it will happen.

And, as the number of Ex-Christians indicate, some who "believe" and "know" now (perhaps fervently so) will come to realize that what they believed and "knew" was nothing more than the product of religious training or indoctrination or of imagination (theirs or others').

And how many more have come to love our Father despite false teachers, man's doctrine, man's religion? How many now SEE where they were blind? How many now LIVE where they were dead?

Given Chrisitianity is on the decline, comparatively speaking, I'm not sure the word 'more' is quite accurate.

I don't know if it is on the decline....I truly have no idea. But, much of what goes on today in the "name of" religion is false. Many that love God have or shall fall into apostasy through deception.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm It is.

I would also advise you not to be so arrogant as to be certain you are one of the 'lucky' ones who knows God's will while 'others' are being deceived.

It isn't arrogance to know He lives in you. It is joy.

Many are being deceived but He sends His witnesses with His Word. Then, once they hear it is their choice to remain in that deceived state or not. Will they accept His Word or the word of man? Those that are to be sealed shall be before this age ends.

Revelation 11:3-5 And I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

[whirlwind]

From Post 195:

Joey, I must reply with His Words. I am instructed to do so. My words, my replies, my ideas hold no weight. They are unimportant. His Words hold truth and our salvation. His words alone.

In other words, you're aware of why circular references are faulty, but will continue to use such.

Impediment to learning indeed.

Only in religion are folks required to accept faulty logic.

Joey, all folks, in all walks of life, in all things, accept faulty logic. That honor doesn't just go to religionist or atheists.

[ChaosBorders]

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That isn't completely true Scotracer. Many of us believe. Many of us know. Many never will. For some it's "not gonna happen." For some that think "it's not gonna happen," it will happen.

And, as the number of Ex-Christians indicate, some who "believe" and "know" now (perhaps fervently so) will come to realize that what they believed and "knew" was nothing more than the product of religious training or indoctrination or of imagination (theirs or others').

And how many more have come to love our Father despite false teachers, man's doctrine, man's religion? How many now SEE where they were blind? How many now LIVE where they were dead?

Given Chrisitianity is on the decline, comparatively speaking, I'm not sure the word 'more' is quite accurate.

I don't know if it is on the decline....I truly have no idea. But, much of what goes on today in the "name of" religion is false. Many that love God have or shall fall into apostasy through deception.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm It is.

I would also advise you not to be so arrogant as to be certain you are one of the 'lucky' ones who knows God's will while 'others' are being deceived.

It isn't arrogance to know He lives in you. It is joy.

Many are being deceived but He sends His witnesses with His Word. Then, once they hear it is their choice to remain in that deceived state or not. Will they accept His Word or the word of man? Those that are to be sealed shall be before this age ends.

Revelation 11:3-5 And I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

The arrogant part is not the 'knowing he lives within in you', it is assuming your interpretation of the Bible is accurate and everyone else who disagrees with you is wrong. That you continue to ignore the moderator warning shows disrespect, which shows a lack of understanding and/or empathy on your part, which arguably shows a lack of love that is rather counter-productive if your goal is to spread God's love.

[Zzyzx]

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Chaosborders,

Kudos for a very appropriate response.

The arrogant part is not the 'knowing he lives within in you', it is assuming your interpretation of the Bible is accurate and everyone else who disagrees with you is wrong.

An issue that makes a lot of capable and determined enemies for Christianity (and other religions) is the assumption of superiority by believers.

Perhaps they have been taught or indoctrinated to believe that their favorite “god� is the “only true god� and that all other “gods� and religions are false (or idolatry or whatever) and “they are all going to hell�; therefore, "we" must be superior and "chosen" and "heaven bound". "We understand what 'god' wants" and others haven't a clue, so "we" are obviously superior in our understandings and our decisions -- and everyone who disagrees is wrong (and going to hell).

Attempting to relate to those of other convictions or beliefs with this attitude is counter-productive (and serves the purposes of anti-religionists).

That you continue to ignore the moderator warning shows disrespect,

To me that shows the weakness of the much touted “Christian morals� (or ethics) – and another example of failure to “walk the talk�. The person committing the repeated acts may not actually represent Christianity, but if they identify themselves as a Christian and act obnoxiously, they DO reflect poorly on the religion in general.

I appreciate when fellow religionists call such people to task for their mistakes.

which shows a lack of understanding and/or empathy on your part, which arguably shows a lack of love that is rather counter-productive if your goal is to spread God's love.

So much for actually “following Jesus�.

[whirlwind]

whirlwind

Joey, I must reply with His Words. I am instructed to do so. My words, my replies, my ideas hold no weight. They are unimportant. His Words hold truth and our salvation. His words alone.

Should any god(s) actually exist it would be fraught with peril to falsely claim to be his spokesperson. Or are you claiming to hear a voice telling you things? Maybe you think you are specially gifted in translating ancient texts? Pride? Hubris? Error? Intent? Maybe. Mindlessness and obstructive of learning? Absolutely. Thanks for making that so clear.

Grumpy

It does come across as a false humility where unknowingly the Believer's conception of the Word of God or feelings and their interpretation is equated with God Himself.
Then they claim it isn't them it is God.
So much for their free-will.

The elect don't have free will. They are already justified. All others have free will to choose Him or not. As for the Words being God's....to answer you I must refer to His Word. He tells us He sends His Spirit to teach and His Spirit lives in us....

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me:

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

[whirlwind]

The arrogant part is not the 'knowing he lives within in you', it is assuming your interpretation of the Bible is accurate and everyone else who disagrees with you is wrong. That you continue to ignore the moderator warning shows disrespect, which shows a lack of understanding and/or empathy on your part, which arguably shows a lack of love that is rather counter-productive if your goal is to spread God's love.

I don't believe "everyone that disagrees with me" is wrong. I know atheists are wrong. There is no disrespect meant in that. They believe I'm wrong and I know they are wrong.

I don't try to ignore the warning. I'm trying to understand it. I'm trying to work, considering their reprimand, as well as my task. Hopefully both can be accommodated.

I assure you...there is no "lack of love." If there were then I wouldn't be here.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 203:

Joey, I must reply with His Words. I am instructed to do so. My words, my replies, my ideas hold no weight. They are unimportant. His Words hold truth and our salvation. His words alone.

In other words, you're aware of why circular references are faulty, but will continue to use such.
Impediment to learning indeed.
Only in religion are folks required to accept faulty logic.

Joey, all folks, in all walks of life, in all things, accept faulty logic. That honor doesn't just go to religionist or atheists.

I'm unaware of anyone, except some theists, typically Christian, that would defend the continuing use of faulty logic. It astounds the mind to know someone is made aware of their use of faulty logic, admit it is faulty, and continue to use and even defend the practice. If that doesn't indicate an impediment to learning I don't know what does.

[ChaosBorders]

I don't try to ignore the warning. I'm trying to understand it. I'm trying to work, considering their reprimand, as well as my task. Hopefully both can be accommodated.

Then I would suggest focusing on the Theology sub-forum, where scripture is considered authoritative, and avoid this one, as your apparent inability to follow the guidelines regarding this sub-forum may end up getting you on probation.

[whirlwind]

From Post 203:

Joey, I must reply with His Words. I am instructed to do so. My words, my replies, my ideas hold no weight. They are unimportant. His Words hold truth and our salvation. His words alone.

In other words, you're aware of why circular references are faulty, but will continue to use such.
Impediment to learning indeed.
Only in religion are folks required to accept faulty logic.

Joey, all folks, in all walks of life, in all things, accept faulty logic. That honor doesn't just go to religionist or atheists.

I'm unaware of anyone, except some theists, typically Christian, that would defend the continuing use of faulty logic. It astounds the mind to know someone is made aware of their use of faulty logic, admit it is faulty, and continue to use and even defend the practice. If that doesn't indicate an impediment to learning I don't know what does.

The point is Joey...I don't see what is written in the Bible as "faulty logic." I see atheism as so faulted it causes death and yet people willingly embrace it.

Now, I don't see any need to discuss this particular topic anymore but, should you have a question or some thing you see as "typically Christian" that you find laughable, past belief, totally bonkers....give me a try. Maybe I can help or...maybe not. If you don't ask we'll never know.