Why do you believe in God?

[McCulloch]

The arguments for believing that there is a God can be categorized as follows:

1. Four Classical Arguments
2. The Argument from First Cause
   1. Everything must have a cause
   2. Causal Chains cannot go on forever
   3. Therefore there must be a first cause, and that is God.
3. The Argument from Design
   1. Something in the universe or the universe itself seems to be designed
   2. Therefore a designer must exist and that is God
4. The Argument from the Anthropic Principle
   1. The universal constants are fine tuned for the existence of humans.
   2. Therefore there must have been a God to fine tune the universe for our existence
5. The Ontological Argument
   1. God is a being than which nothing greater can be conceived.
   2. Assume that God does not exist.
   3. An existent God is a being greater than a non-existent one
   4. If God did not exist, then we could conceive of a being greater than God -- A God that exists.
   5. This is a contradiction, therefore (2) must be false and God exists
   Courtesy of Saint Anselm.

1. Four Subjective Arguments
2. The Argument from Coincidence
   1. There have been some remarkable coincidences.
   2. There must be a reason for those coincidences.
   3. That reason is God.
3. The Argument from Prophecy
   1. A holy book makes prophesies.
   2. A holy book or the adherents of it report that those prophesies have come true.
   3. Therefore whatever else is in the book, such as the claim that God exists must be true.
4. The Argument from Subjectivity and Faith
   1. People feel sure that God exists.
   2. Therefore God exists.
5. The Argument from Divine Interventions, Miracles and such
   1. A miracle occurs, perhaps as a response to prayer.
   2. God exists as evidenced by the divine intervention

1. Four Psycho-Mathematical Arguments
2. The Argument from Redefinition
   1. God is Love or Goodness or some other such thing.
   2. Love, goodness or whatever, clearly exists.
   3. Therefore God exists.
3. The Argument from Cognitive Tendency
   1. Some cognitive tendencies suggest the existence of an all-powerful agent.
   2. God must be that all-powerful agent
4. The Universality Argument and Morality
   1. Across cultures, the similarities in moral values are quite apparent.
   2. They must come from God
5. The Gambling Argument
   1. We can choose to believe or not in God.
   2. If we choose wrongly then negative consequences of choosing to disbelieve are greater than the negative consequences of choosing to believe.
   3. Therefore it is prudent to believe.

The classifications and much of the synopses are from John Allen Paulos, Professor of Mathematics at Temple University, in his book Irreligion, A Mathematician Explains Why the Arguments for God Just Don't Add Up As fallacious as these might seem, these seriously are the arguments put forth by philosophers, theologians, saints, apologists and preachers.

These are the arguments for God. There are numerous subtle variations on them, but essentially, as far as I can tell those who claim that God exists do so based on one or more of these arguments and nothing else.

Why should I believe that there is a God? What are your reasons? Are any of these reasons valid? If your reasons do not fall into any of the above groupings, please let us know why you believe. If you believe for a combination of these reasons, select the strongest one and explain why.

[Thought Criminal]

Tying this to the question for debate, it appears as if Olavisjo believes that God exists because not to believe opens up the terrifying possibility that we are not a special creation, favored by the Creator of the Universe. To admit to the possibility that we are simply part of the biological film that has developed on a small planet near the edge of an ordinary galaxy, would lead to a lack of purpose and despair. Much better to put on the God glasses and see in everything how God has made the universe just for us and loves us and focuses his divine attention on our well being.

Well said, I could not have put it any better myself.

Uhm, the argument you just endorsed is demonstrably fallacious. Rather than supprting its conclusion, it is of the form "X would be scary, therefore I will believe not-X instead". Whether X scares you has no bearing on its truth. Or, to bring this back to the point, perhaps a world without God frightens you, but that doesn't make it any less real. No point sticking your head in the proverbial sand.

TC

[Thought Criminal]

Yes, the brain is a computational machine, but the soul that resides in the brain is not.

My brain must be defective, as it did not come with a soul. I even checked the shipping manifest, and all it talks about is a few pounds of meat.

Seriously, why should we believe that, in addition to the functioning of the brain, my mind somehow depends upon an entirely immaterial soul whose existence has yet to be demonstrated?

TC

[McCulloch]

I am not dismissing the idea, in fact I do think something along those lines will happen, only these hyper intelligent machines will not be mere machines, they will incarnated demons.

Amazing! You believe that human inventions when they become complex enough to have some form of self-awareness and independent thought, will become the hosts for spiritual beings who's existence is entirely without evidence. So if you then pray to God that the demons possessing such machines go away into a passing herd of pigs, will the machines suddenly lose some of their intellectual capabilities?

It appears as if Olavisjo believes that God exists because not to believe opens up the terrifying possibility that we are not a special creation, favored by the Creator of the Universe. To admit to the possibility that we are simply part of the biological film that has developed on a small planet near the edge of an ordinary galaxy, would lead to a lack of purpose and despair. Much better to put on the God glasses and see in everything how God has made the universe just for us and loves us and focuses his divine attention on our well being.

Well said, I could not have put it any better myself.

You do realize that the reason I have attributed to you for belief in God is not a valid reason to believe that something is true. It is called the Appeal to Consequences of a Belief fallacy.

[Ayah5768]

I know I am 20 pages too late, but I wanted to respond to the OP.

There is a verse in the Bible that is often translated "I am that I am" or "I am who I am." In reality, the Hebrew answer to Moses' question of what to tell the Israelites about who sent him was "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" which is a difficult syntax and can really not be properly translated. Jewish Bibles often leave the Hebrew intact for that reason. The common teaching is that what God is and what God's name is are both things that are so complicated that they can not be translated into anything we would understand. God therefore didn't try... and neither should we.

I am sharing all of that, to say this: Why do I believe in God? I do because I do. It sounds simple, but in Hebrew it would be a phrase that can not be properly translated because it is both very simple and much too complicated to be translated into anything that I can understand. I do not believe because of any of the reasons you wrote. I believe because I do.

Once again, I realize that I am a bit late to enter this thread at the point of the OP. I just wanted to give my answer. You may feel free to ignore this post and continue with your conversation.

Shalom,

Ayah

[Thought Criminal]

I know I am 20 pages too late, but I wanted to respond to the OP.

There is a verse in the Bible that is often translated "I am that I am" or "I am who I am." In reality, the Hebrew answer to Moses' question of what to tell the Israelites about who sent him was "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" which is a difficult syntax and can really not be properly translated. Jewish Bibles often leave the Hebrew intact for that reason. The common teaching is that what God is and what God's name is are both things that are so complicated that they can not be translated into anything we would understand. God therefore didn't try... and neither should we.

I am sharing all of that, to say this: Why do I believe in God? I do because I do. It sounds simple, but in Hebrew it would be a phrase that can not be properly translated because it is both very simple and much too complicated to be translated into anything that I can understand. I do not believe because of any of the reasons you wrote. I believe because I do.

Once again, I realize that I am a bit late to enter this thread at the point of the OP. I just wanted to give my answer. You may feel free to ignore this post and continue with your conversation.

Shalom,

Ayah

Aloha.

The problem with this sort of belief is that it's unclear what you believe in or why you do. In particular, this does not seem to be a rational belief.

Aloha.

TC

[Goat]

I know I am 20 pages too late, but I wanted to respond to the OP.

There is a verse in the Bible that is often translated "I am that I am" or "I am who I am." In reality, the Hebrew answer to Moses' question of what to tell the Israelites about who sent him was "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" which is a difficult syntax and can really not be properly translated. Jewish Bibles often leave the Hebrew intact for that reason. The common teaching is that what God is and what God's name is are both things that are so complicated that they can not be translated into anything we would understand. God therefore didn't try... and neither should we.

Another thing that should be pointed out, just for amusement sake. Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh is pronounced very closely to what 'YHWH' probably was. In other words, it is one nice little pun that does not translate well outside of the Hebrew language.

[Ayah5768]

Aloha.

The problem with this sort of belief is that it's unclear what you believe in or why you do. In particular, this does not seem to be a rational belief.

Aloha.

TC

I try to remain rational in what I do and think as often as possible. Sometimes I, like everyone else, fail miserably at that. Such is life.

~Ayah

[Ayah5768]

Another thing that should be pointed out, just for amusement sake. Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh is pronounced very closely to what 'YHWH' probably was. In other words, it is one nice little pun that does not translate well outside of the Hebrew language.

That is very interesting. Thank you for pointed it out.

[Thought Criminal]

I try to remain rational in what I do and think as often as possible. Sometimes I, like everyone else, fail miserably at that. Such is life.

Yes, we live and learn. We all make mistakes and fail sometimes. What's important, though, is that we can fix our mistakes and overcome our failures. Speaking of which, when are you planning to do so with regard to your religious beliefs?

TC

[Ayah5768]

I try to remain rational in what I do and think as often as possible. Sometimes I, like everyone else, fail miserably at that. Such is life.

Yes, we live and learn. We all make mistakes and fail sometimes. What's important, though, is that we can fix our mistakes and overcome our failures. Speaking of which, when are you planning to do so with regard to your religious beliefs?

TC

The bulk of the beliefs of my religion are perfectly rational. Mostly, it is just about how to treat people and things like that. That is why theism is not necessary in Judaism. I believe in God on a certain level and to a certain extent.

When do I plan on fixing my mistakes and overcoming my failures with regards to my religious beliefs? Today. I am always doing just that, actually. There is no part of my religious beliefs that lives outside of a constant vetting process. However, in much the same way that an atheist can not force himself to believe that which he does not, I can't force myself to stop believing that which I do.

I have been on both sides of this conversation and, honestly, I don't disagree with you. Nevertheless, I am who I am. There is nothing else that I can be.