Reasons To Doubt Evolution

[WinePusher]

In another thread a user asked for reasons to doubt evolution and, after thinking about the topic, I managed to come up with 3 objections to evolutionary theory:

1. Darwinian evolutionary theory fails to make precise, quantitative predictions. Generally speaking, a typical requirement for legitimate science is that a theory must produce precise, specific, quantitative predictions that will either bear out or falsify the theory itself. Darwinian evolutionary theory lacks this, as it only makes imprecise, abstract, qualitative predictions. Indeed, Stephen Jay Gould suggested that if all of natural history were rewound the mechanism of natural selection wouldn't produce the same species we have now.

2. The fossil record is highly discontinuous and many transitional sequences are nonexistent. Ideally, for evolutionary theory to be completely tight and sound there should be a wide array of transitional forms for every single major morphological change. The fossil record clearly lacks this.

3. Computer simulations of Darwinian evolutionary theory have yet to be successful. Inputting an appropriate algorithm into a computer is something that is done even in upper level undergrad university courses, and it is done to simulate and replicate a continuous process. It appears that attempts at encoding Darwinian mechanisms into an algorithm and inputting them into a computer have failed to yield successful results. I'm don't know much about this particular topic so input from biology experts would be extremely helpful.

Biology isn't my field so I would like to hear some input from other users (preferably those who have actually had academic training in biology like nygreenguy). Is there any truth to these three points?

[acehighinfinity]

[Replying to post 209 by Goat]

That's exactly what I knew you would say. I told you it was of my time!

1000s of Reasons To Doubt Evolution! They would lose the debate by far. I don't mean here, of course on this forum we have those who think highly of themselves as an excellent genius, and won't even bother to take the real stand. All this responding to someone comments just to add their two cents and blow the trumpets "Evolution is this and that...". Must really tick the ego into 6th gear. Kudo to you MATE! It's been fun but you see clearly Evolution is coming to an END..without Doubt!

[Bust Nak]

That's exactly what I knew you would say. I told you it was of my time!

1000s of Reasons To Doubt Evolution! They would lose the debate by far. I don't mean here, of course on this forum we have those who think highly of themselves as an excellent genius, and won't even bother to take the real stand. All this responding to someone comments just to add their two cents and blow the trumpets "Evolution is this and that...". Must really tick the ego into 6th gear. Kudo to you MATE! It's been fun but you see clearly Evolution is coming to an END..without Doubt!

Right, because handwaving rebuttal away as a waste of time, posting videos in the place of forming an argument, are the way to take a real stand?

1000s of Reasons To Doubt Evolution, and not a single one that is scientific.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 198 by Goat]

Now I'm bored Goat! You wanna play 'Ring around the roses'?? You can forget about the definition just get straight to the point; not a single change of specie/kind from one to another have been observed.

As for the other bogus comments, you're not worth my time!

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. - Socrates

haha what debate did you win clown? The bandwagon comments with no real evidence but the tool of the loser is in the lab being falsified. How's the circus going?

You will serve yourself better if you focus on backing up the claims you make rather than accusing others of "not being worth your time", for example.

Thus the reason for the Socrates comment.
The debate can still continue, unless of course you continue to not debate.
For example:

It's been fun but you see clearly Evolution is coming to an END..without Doubt!

This is an empty claim. Will you provide evidence for us to consider?

We will see...

[99percentatheism]

Clownboat

[Replying to post 198 by Goat]

Now I'm bored Goat! You wanna play 'Ring around the roses'?? You can forget about the definition just get straight to the point; not a single change of specie/kind from one to another have been observed.

As for the other bogus comments, you're not worth my time!

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. - Socrates

Be careful about that quote. You prove its worth right hear:

haha what debate did you win clown?

That should be reported to the Mods. But it's better left where it can be seen for what it is.

The bandwagon comments with no real evidence but the tool of the loser is in the lab being falsified. How's the circus going?

While I firmly believe in evolution, what lab has turned a bird into a frog? And last time I looked, Darwin's Finches are still Finches. Not one has evolved into an Albatross and left Galapagos Island for better digs. Why stay on an closed eco-system that causes birth defects and deformities to your offspring? Why didn't evolution tell the Finches that there is much easier ways to get seeds on the American continent? Heck, one of the species provides then for you without any need for wasted foraging or wasting valuable energy. Doesn't evolution sooner or later have to make a new communications system for the lower animals? Heck, Darwin's Finches are still juts the same old Darwin's Finches. What a waste of life. Evolution-wise that is. I like Finches.

You will serve yourself better if you focus on backing up the claims you make rather than accusing others of "not being worth your time", for example.

Many kinds of people that declare evolution as the end all are not worth the time to talk to to.

Thus the reason for the Socrates comment.

The debate can still continue, unless of course you continue to not debate.
For example:

It's been fun but you see clearly Evolution is coming to an END..without Doubt!

This is an empty claim. Will you provide evidence for us to consider?

It has come to an end. How many people fumble about trying to equate caring for one another as evolutionary? There is not one evolutionary reason to care for the sick, old, dying, poor, suffering, starving, etc., etc., etc.. Yet how many people that seem to believe in evolution . . . contradict it time and again with "social justice" causes. Social justice is either ridding the planet of the worthless or using them to better the lives of the strong and powerful.

We will see...

We will see when evolutionists stop creating products to prolong the deserved death of the mentally and physically weak and sick and let the mentally and physically strong and powerful take their rightful and ONLY place in an evolutionary world.

Let's start with those that either cannot breed because of some physical or mental reason: congenital DNA orientation or physical damage or unwillingness to do so.

Evolution is contradicted so often when it comes down to ridding the species of the worthless within it. Why do we allow science to be used better the lives of the highest animal species on earth, that evolution has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt do not deserve it?

You get or have a a disease, are born to ineffective parents or are killed by a more healthy individual for a species-beneficial reason? You deserved it per evolution. There is no such thing as murder or suffering in evolution. Zippo.

Now, um, who wants to debate reasons to doubt evolution?

[Goat]

[Replying to post 209 by Goat]

That's exactly what I knew you would say. I told you it was of my time!

1000s of Reasons To Doubt Evolution! They would lose the debate by far. I don't mean here, of course on this forum we have those who think highly of themselves as an excellent genius, and won't even bother to take the real stand. All this responding to someone comments just to add their two cents and blow the trumpets "Evolution is this and that...". Must really tick the ego into 6th gear. Kudo to you MATE! It's been fun but you see clearly Evolution is coming to an END..without Doubt!

I notice that you do not present any of these '1000s of reasons', you just put a link to a bunch of videos by someone who has absolutely no clue what so ever about science in general, and evolution in specific.

Could you support some of those reasons.. You make a lot of general claims, but you certainly don't seem able to relay in a coherent fashion any of those reasons.

How about, you know, supporting your claim? How about taking just maybe one or two of your top reasons, and see if they are anywhere near accurate.

I rather suspect that if you knew what the specific reasons were, you would have brought them up, rather than just point a playlist on youtube, nor would you use Kent Hovind as a source.

[Bust Nak]

While I firmly believe in evolution, what lab has turned a bird into a frog?

None.

And last time I looked, Darwin's Finches are still Finches. Not one has evolved into an Albatross and left Galapagos Island for better digs. Why stay on an closed eco-system that causes birth defects and deformities to your offspring? Why didn't evolution tell the Finches that there is much easier ways to get seeds on the American continent? Heck, one of the species provides then for you without any need for wasted foraging or wasting valuable energy. Doesn't evolution sooner or later have to make a new communications system for the lower animals? Heck, Darwin's Finches are still juts the same old Darwin's Finches. What a waste of life. Evolution-wise that is. I like Finches.

Because evolution is unguided and have no foresight. It does not and cannot care if finches goes extinct or not.

It has come to an end. How many people fumble about trying to equate caring for one another as evolutionary? There is not one evolutionary reason to care for the sick, old, dying, poor, suffering, starving, etc., etc., etc.. Yet how many people that seem to believe in evolution . . . contradict it time and again with "social justice" causes. Social justice is either ridding the planet of the worthless or using them to better the lives of the strong and powerful.

Evolution explains why we care for one another. It doesn't say we should care for one another. What you have labelled as "contradiction" is infact entirely consistent.

We will see when evolutionists stop creating products to prolong the deserved death of the mentally and physically weak and sick and let the mentally and physically strong and powerful take their rightful and ONLY place in an evolutionary world.

Will we? I very much doubt that.

Let's start with those that either cannot breed because of some physical or mental reason: congenital DNA orientation or physical damage or unwillingness to do so.

There is no need, they already can't breed.

Evolution is contradicted so often when it comes down to ridding the species of the worthless within it. Why do we allow science to be used better the lives of the highest animal species on earth, that evolution has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt do not deserve it?

Because we are empathic individuals, the result of indifferent evolution.

You get or have a a disease, are born to ineffective parents or are killed by a more healthy individual for a species-beneficial reason? You deserved it per evolution.

Incorrect. Evolution doesn't say what ought to happen, but explains what happened. It is not an ethics system, it is science. Does the phrase "descriptive, not prescriptive" mean anything to you?

There is no such thing as murder or suffering in evolution. Zippo.

Now, um, who wants to debate reasons to doubt evolution?

You argued the same thing before. What do you think might have changed since last time that would make this any more effective this time round?

[Artie]

Evolution is contradicted so often when it comes down to ridding the species of the worthless within it. Why do we allow science to be used better the lives of the highest animal species on earth, that evolution has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt do not deserve it?

You get or have a a disease, are born to ineffective parents or are killed by a more healthy individual for a species-beneficial reason? You deserved it per evolution. There is no such thing as murder or suffering in evolution. Zippo.

Now, um, who wants to debate reasons to doubt evolution?

We have a survival instinct. As we started to live in groups we evolved moral codes such as the Golden Rule because living by these codes enhanced all our chances of survival. Most people understand that it is in their best interest to live by these moral codes. But many people simply don't understand how and why moral codes such as the Golden Rule evolved. Their reasoning and morality is still stuck in a dog eat dog world. We call these people sociopaths because their morality isn't compatible with living in a society. But if we provide these people with religious authority figures, so called "shepherds", such as Jesus Christ who tells them to live by the Golden Rule,

Matthew 7:12 "So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

there is a possibility that they might listen to him and behave morally anyway. 99percentatheism says he is a Christian, Disciple of Jesus and a former atheist. He seems to be a good example how this principle works and if he can persuade others of the same persuasion to become Christians and disciples of Jesus it is good for society as a whole.

[Strider324]

99percentatheism scribed:

We will see when evolutionists stop creating products to prolong the deserved death of the mentally and physically weak and sick and let the mentally and physically strong and powerful take their rightful and ONLY place in an evolutionary world.

I appreciate your consistency in posting things that continue to demonstrate your ignorance of what Evolution is. Evolution doesn't give a rats patootie about whether a population is 'mentally or physically' strong or weak - it only addresses whether a population is adapted to its environment. In an environment of complete darkness, the blind man rules....

[Danmark]

Look who's talking? You must do this a lot. I will specific here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woOxMkX ... D-&index=3
I found everything you need to know on Hovind debate on Evolution. There are tons of questions if you can't answer then there is no point listing them!

I'm not surprised you claim to have found "everything you need to know" on a Hovind website.

Perhaps you are unaware Hovind currently resides in Federal prison. He was successful in hoodwinking a large number of scientifically naive Young Earth Creationists into paying real $ to visit his shabby theme park, but he was caught lying about his income:

Kent E. Hovind (born January 15, 1953) is an American young Earth creationist and conspiracy theorist. Hovind has spoken on creation science and has aimed to convince listeners to reject scientific theories of evolution, geophysics, and cosmology in favor of his interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative from the Bible. Hovind's views are contradicted by scientific evidence and some of his ideas have also been criticized by young Earth creationist organizations such as Answers in Genesis.

Hovind established Creation Science Evangelism in 1991, and frequently spoke on young Earth creationism at seminars at private schools and churches, debates, and on radio and television broadcasts. Since January 2007, Hovind has been serving a ten-year prison sentence after being convicted of 58 federal counts, including 12 tax offenses, one count of obstructing federal agents, and 45 counts of structuring cash transactions. He is incarcerated at the Federal Correctional Institution at Berlin, New Hampshire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovin ... nture_Land
[emphasis mine]
Even other creationists have found this convicted thief and liar to be completely wrong on his facts. He is not a scientist. He is a con man. And of course the first resort of these flim flam men is to cry "Conspiracy!"

[otseng]

haha what debate did you win clown? The bandwagon comments with no real evidence but the tool of the loser is in the lab being falsified. How's the circus going?

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