tam wrote:Where in my post did I glorify murder?
If you defend the murder of the poor man described in Numbers 15, then you glorify murder, unless, of course, you disapprove of stoning a person to death.
You have an incomplete story of God (not Christ) ordering a man be executed for violating one of the ten commandments.
As you know I see your theology as unorthodox, and when I critique the Bible and Christianity, I critique orthodox theology. So when I read that the Bible god ordered murder, I read that Christ ordered murder because according to the theology of most Christians (John 1:1), Christ is the Bible god. I must agree with this orthodox theology insofar as it is what the Bible says. Your theology, by contrast, I see as something you have made up on your own.
I suspect a crazed mob might have simply stoned the man then and there, rather than bring him to Moses because they did not know what should be done.
LOL, why can't a crazed mob have dragged their unfortunate victim to Moses? How is that any less crazed?
The time and place and circumstances absolutely make a difference as to how a person or a people react, think, feel.
In that case let's say that Hitler's concentration camps were morally justified because they were located in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s. The time and place make all the difference, eh Tam? I can use the same reasoning to defend Hitler's actions that you use to defend the Bible god.
Since the story does not say, you are guessing. You are guessing at the expense of the previous verse which speaks of a man DEFIANTLY breaking the law, and that man would be the one who is supposed to be cut off from his people.
Who is adding details to the story now? It's entirely possible that the man was confused in some way, and he may even have had dementia and was then not responsible for his actions. The Jewish sabbath law does not spell out what "work" is, and this unfortunate murder victim might have assumed that gathering up a few sticks he needed would not constitute a violation of the sabbath law.
But regardless of his state of mind, his being told not to work on a day of the week is a really stupid law, and his murder for doing so is barbaric. Any person with a bit of decency would defy such an evil god.
I notice that you ignored all of those examples from Christ in your response to me.
If Christ isn't the Bible god, then what he is quoted as saying is irrelevant to Numbers 15. Are you saying that Christ opposes the law of Moses?
It is ridiculous to call a man a hero for disobeying the law, especially when he agreed to obey it to begin with.
We are adding more details! I doubt if the man murdered by Moses ever agreed to his own death.
Your religion binds you to absolute obedience to Yahweh/Christ. No matter how wicked, cruel, or stupid the injunction might be, you must do it.
But it has absolutely nothing to do with me, my faith, or my post. Where in the world did you even come up with that? Or is it just that you had no response to my actual words?
Great! Then you are free to disobey Christ. Please post examples of what Christ might command that you would not do.
Fine. If Christ ordered you to butcher me, would you do it?
I would not. It would go against the love and the mercy that He has taught me (and He teaches what He learned from His Father). It would go against the spirit He has given me. I would in fact be disobeying Him to carry out such a command (though He would never give me such a command to begin with).
If you accept what Christ teaches you, then you would butcher me if he taught you to do so! You are contradicting yourself here stating that you would not obey Christ's command because you obey his commands.
I feel very strongly about this issue because I have been a victim of Christian violence and abuse.
You have been the victim of violence and abuse, regardless of what religion those people who abused you claimed to belong to. They were certainly not listening to Christ or to His Father, to be able to abuse you. Those who abused you were wrong of course! But their actions are on them.
My mother abused me as a result of her belief in Christ. She loved the idea of a wrathful and vengeful god who punishes sinners, and that was the basis for her abuse.
In summary, your theology is very contrived and ad hoc. You make things up to try to smooth over the horrors that often result from your faith. The same reasons you use to defend the murder of the man in Numbers 15 can be used to defend the genocides of Hitler and Stalin.