A question for christians

thenormalyears · Post by **thenormalyears** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:11 pm

You believe in a God that is all knowing, he knows the past, present and the future, correct?

melikio · Post by **melikio** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:45 pm

God loves you. God created you. Thats why

AB, it's not worth arguing too much, but I need to say that you believe this BY FAITH; it is not a fact that YOU can prove to anyone.

I'm not against "faith", but there is a difference between that which you believe, and that which you can absolutely prove. And as such, you must leave room for others to believe what they can or will.

-Mel-

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:38 pm

I don’t have anything against faith. Like creativity and imagination there are useful even if they are sometimes costly. Evolution does that. If you want to see an example of evolution just look at the history of religions. It just happens faster. But no one should deny our natural involvement with reality and experience. When I see the bible or doctrines used to support the poisoning of knowledge I get concerned.
Present Hebrew based religions were influenced by Semitic, Egyptian, Sumerian and Persian religions. The historical signs are in the literature. Faith based religions are personal and shared. The variety is evident. Their experiences and writings should not be allowed to misinform. I often see this done with so-called bible proofs and the contortions People will go thru just to prove the bible is perfect and with out error therefore you should believe anything it says the way they interpreted it.
The danger is do we let politically motivated faith and religion create the paradigms of science and scholarship? Is a faith that has to be proved by destroying knowledge really faith? Is proving everything in the bible true really faith or a desperate need for conformations? Granted it would be nice to have your faith based on something reliable and not crazy. Many so called liberal scholars remain Christians even if they doubt the resurrection because they have found something deeper that gives them meaning with out the need for a revived body or spirit. Harvey would be a good example of such spiritual growth. He knows they are myths yet sees something deeper in a language hardly understood by Christians yet still tries to maintain a biblical justification largely thru Paul.
I have many friends that know much of the bible is myth but continue to believe that loving and forgiving others is message and have faith it is worth working for the well being others. Many Christians have moved on and out grow their childhood stories and the desired end as the means.
I am just glad we can argue about it. As a people we just need to make sure no one takes control and starts eliminating others.

Cephus · Post by **Cephus** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:20 pm

AB wrote:God loves you. God created you. Thats why
Lotan wrote:Why?

Prove it. If you can't demonstrate that your claim is true, it's just a nonsensical statement. There's no evidence that there's a God, there's no evidence that this God created anything, nor that this God loves anything.

Easyrider · Post by **Easyrider** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:47 pm

Cathar1950 wrote:I think we were dealing with Mark.

Need an "ego eimi" in Mark? I've already presented it. Mark 4:50 - "Take courage! It is I (original Greek ego eimi - literally I AM). Don't be afraid."

Cathar1950 wrote:I doubt there is a genuine words of Jesus in the gospel of John....

I doubt you're right on that one.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:22 pm

You miss the point that it is said by others in the NT and is not the same word in the OT as it is translated. "I am" in greek is translated different then "I am" in Hebrew as used by the burning bush when it is translated in greek. In English it all seems the same.

Easyrider · Post by **Easyrider** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:26 pm

Cathar1950 wrote:You miss the point that it is said by others in the NT and is not the same word in the OT as it is translated. "I am" in greek is translated different then "I am" in Hebrew as used by the burning bush when it is translated in greek. In English it all seems the same.

That's your spin. If that were true the Jews wouldn't have picked up rocks to stone Christ for blasphemy after he said, "Before Abramham was, I AM."

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:27 pm

I doubt he said it.
That is your spin that it all has to be true.
For all we know he might have been saying before Abraham YHWH and the gospel writers got it wrong.

Easyrider · Post by **Easyrider** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:32 pm

Cathar1950 wrote:I doubt he said it.

Skeptic defense #3: Remain in denial and never admit anything that goes against your prejudices.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:39 pm

Easyrider wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:You miss the point that it is said by others in the NT and is not the same word in the OT as it is translated. "I am" in greek is translated different then "I am" in Hebrew as used by the burning bush when it is translated in greek. In English it all seems the same.
That's your spin. If that were true the Jews wouldn't have picked up rocks to stone Christ for blasphemy after he said, "Before Abramham was, I AM."

Sure they would. After all, someone claiming they are greater than Abraham is blashphemy.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:40 pm

Brain washed defence number one; every one else is in denial.
Defence number two; believe everything if it is in the bible and all others are wrong.

Debating Christianity and Religion

A question for christians

A question for christians

Faith, not FACT.