Why do you believe in God?

[McCulloch]

The arguments for believing that there is a God can be categorized as follows:

1. Four Classical Arguments
2. The Argument from First Cause
   1. Everything must have a cause
   2. Causal Chains cannot go on forever
   3. Therefore there must be a first cause, and that is God.
3. The Argument from Design
   1. Something in the universe or the universe itself seems to be designed
   2. Therefore a designer must exist and that is God
4. The Argument from the Anthropic Principle
   1. The universal constants are fine tuned for the existence of humans.
   2. Therefore there must have been a God to fine tune the universe for our existence
5. The Ontological Argument
   1. God is a being than which nothing greater can be conceived.
   2. Assume that God does not exist.
   3. An existent God is a being greater than a non-existent one
   4. If God did not exist, then we could conceive of a being greater than God -- A God that exists.
   5. This is a contradiction, therefore (2) must be false and God exists
   Courtesy of Saint Anselm.

1. Four Subjective Arguments
2. The Argument from Coincidence
   1. There have been some remarkable coincidences.
   2. There must be a reason for those coincidences.
   3. That reason is God.
3. The Argument from Prophecy
   1. A holy book makes prophesies.
   2. A holy book or the adherents of it report that those prophesies have come true.
   3. Therefore whatever else is in the book, such as the claim that God exists must be true.
4. The Argument from Subjectivity and Faith
   1. People feel sure that God exists.
   2. Therefore God exists.
5. The Argument from Divine Interventions, Miracles and such
   1. A miracle occurs, perhaps as a response to prayer.
   2. God exists as evidenced by the divine intervention

1. Four Psycho-Mathematical Arguments
2. The Argument from Redefinition
   1. God is Love or Goodness or some other such thing.
   2. Love, goodness or whatever, clearly exists.
   3. Therefore God exists.
3. The Argument from Cognitive Tendency
   1. Some cognitive tendencies suggest the existence of an all-powerful agent.
   2. God must be that all-powerful agent
4. The Universality Argument and Morality
   1. Across cultures, the similarities in moral values are quite apparent.
   2. They must come from God
5. The Gambling Argument
   1. We can choose to believe or not in God.
   2. If we choose wrongly then negative consequences of choosing to disbelieve are greater than the negative consequences of choosing to believe.
   3. Therefore it is prudent to believe.

The classifications and much of the synopses are from John Allen Paulos, Professor of Mathematics at Temple University, in his book Irreligion, A Mathematician Explains Why the Arguments for God Just Don't Add Up As fallacious as these might seem, these seriously are the arguments put forth by philosophers, theologians, saints, apologists and preachers.

These are the arguments for God. There are numerous subtle variations on them, but essentially, as far as I can tell those who claim that God exists do so based on one or more of these arguments and nothing else.

Why should I believe that there is a God? What are your reasons? Are any of these reasons valid? If your reasons do not fall into any of the above groupings, please let us know why you believe. If you believe for a combination of these reasons, select the strongest one and explain why.

[olavisjo]

Do you have Faith like a child or Evidence? You are claiming evidence, but your evidence is a fallacy. Can't you just believe in God through Faith?

I was simply giving evidence for the existence of God. How much weight my evidence carries is up to those who read these posts to decide.
It may be true that a fine tuned universe does not necessarily require a tuner, but in my experience with tuned instruments like guitars, violins, pianos etc... there was always a tuner.
If I did move to move to Saudi Arabia, I would certainly get a lot of evidence that the Koran is inspired by God and I would weigh it with the evidence that the Bible has given me, and who knows they may convert me or I might turn Saudi Arabia into a Christian nation.

[daedalus 2.0]

Do you have Faith like a child or Evidence? You are claiming evidence, but your evidence is a fallacy. Can't you just believe in God through Faith?

I was simply giving evidence for the existence of God. How much weight my evidence carries is up to those who read these posts to decide.
It may be true that a fine tuned universe does not necessarily require a tuner, but in my experience with tuned instruments like guitars, violins, pianos etc... there was always a tuner.
If I did move to move to Saudi Arabia, I would certainly get a lot of evidence that the Koran is inspired by God and I would weigh it with the evidence that the Bible has given me, and who knows they may convert me or I might turn Saudi Arabia into a Christian nation.

It's fun to fantasize, no? REalistically, you would probably be killed for some trumped up charge of rape or espionage, or just in some dark alley.


Either way, the point is that belief in go is supposed to be on Faith, not evidence: why do we keep being given examples of evidence - fallacious evience, btw?

What purpose would I have if someone said "Do you have a Four of Clubs" and then I start telling them of evidence of droodles and plinkets? Maybe I even show them a Five of Hearts!


Have I enetered into the debate with honor?

[olavisjo]

It's fun to fantasize, no? Realistically, you would probably be killed for some trumped up charge of rape or espionage, or just in some dark alley.

Jesus said it would be like that, they did it to him, they will do it to those who follow him as well.

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

[Thought Criminal]

It's fun to fantasize, no? Realistically, you would probably be killed for some trumped up charge of rape or espionage, or just in some dark alley.

Jesus said it would be like that, they did it to him, they will do it to those who follow him as well.

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Do you really think that, after all this time, more people have been killed because they were Christians than because they weren't?

TC

[olavisjo]

Do you really think that, after all this time, more people have been killed because they were Christians than because they weren't?

I don't know about more people, but there are a very small number of people who will stand up for Christ, and they will be persecuted. The vast number of Christians are so in name only, and are accepted by society.

[Thought Criminal]

Do you really think that, after all this time, more people have been killed because they were Christians than because they weren't?

I don't know about more people, but there are a very small number of people who will stand up for Christ, and they will be persecuted. The vast number of Christians are so in name only, and are accepted by society.

Persecuted by?

TC

[olavisjo]

Persecuted by?

Satan and his forces.

[Thought Criminal]

Persecuted by?

Satan and his forces.

I hope you have some grasp of how insanely paranoid that sounds.

TC

[Zzyzx]

.

I don't know about more people, but there are a very small number of people who will stand up for Christ, and they will be persecuted.

Kindly give modern examples from your nation of residence that shows that people who "stand up for Christ" ARE persecuted (avoiding isolate examples and historical reference because you claimed that the "will be persecuted".

I seriously doubt that you can justify saying that those who "stand up for Christ WILL be persecuted". If you cannot, and if you are honorable, you will withdraw the statement and apologize to forum members for misleading them by claiming something that cannot be shown to be true.

The vast number of Christians are so in name only, and are accepted by society.

What, besides your personal opinion and conjecture, indicates that "the vast number of Christians are so in name only"? Has the matter been investigated / studied to determine the pervasiveness of "Christian in name only"?

What, exactly identifies those who are "Christians in name only"?

Who decides which people are "in name only" and which are "Real Christians" – and what criteria are used to make the determination?

Kindly substantiate your claim or acknowledge that you cannot and withdraw it.

[olavisjo]

I don't know about more people, but there are a very small number of people who will stand up for Christ, and they will be persecuted.

Kindly give modern examples from your nation of residence that shows that people who "stand up for Christ" ARE persecuted (avoiding isolate examples and historical reference because you claimed that the "will be persecuted".

I seriously doubt that you can justify saying that those who "stand up for Christ WILL be persecuted". If you cannot, and if you are honorable, you will withdraw the statement and apologize to forum members for misleading them by claiming something that cannot be shown to be true.

Read the comments in this video from youtube. It is not unusual, I can get you as many clips like that as you would want. I am not saying that the persecution comes from all members of society, but Satan has control over enough people to do his bidding and he hates Christians the most, Christians are lightning rods to his efforts.

The vast number of Christians are so in name only, and are accepted by society.

What, besides your personal opinion and conjecture, indicates that "the vast number of Christians are so in name only"? Has the matter been investigated / studied to determine the pervasiveness of "Christian in name only"?

What, exactly identifies those who are "Christians in name only"?

Who decides which people are "in name only" and which are "Real Christians" – and what criteria are used to make the determination?

Kindly substantiate your claim or acknowledge that you cannot and withdraw it.

I am surprised that you would question this claim. Will you accept my claim that about 90% of Americans self identify as Christian, and if that is the case why do we see so little Christian virtue in the USA, in fact it is one of the most immoral societies on the planet.
If you don't already know that most Christians are pathetic, you may want to read some stuff like this.
http://sojournhuntsville.org/blogs/bob_ ... _name_only
http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn56/moral_name.htm