Minimum Attributes of God

[ThatGirlAgain]

Definitions aside, to me you have developed a supposition that there are no supernatural entities due to the fact that we have no evidence of any such beings; and because all that have been proposed so far by man are nonsensical; which is a much more reasonable position than adopting a superstition like Christianity. I am merely taking these ideas one step further to contend that since we really have no idea what a 'God' would entail, we have no basis upon which to claim 'God(s)' doesn't exist. Can you define this entity that you claim does not exist?

Does zxcvbnm exist? Since we have “no idea� what zxcvbnm means we cannot make a claim either way. Do we really have NO idea what God(s) means? If that is the case then there is no more reason to talk about God(s) than there is to talk about zxcvbnm. Conversation over.

But if there is some idea of what is meant by God(s), then we have a basis for conversation. Is there in fact anything we can say about God(s)?

I imagine there is something to be said. Many people throw the term around and seem to think it means something. Is there a bare minimum of meaning that is needed to merit the label God? Is it perhaps necessary to have several different meanings? For example, the Christian God is generally given the attribute of ‘Creator of the Universe’ but Apollo is not. Perhaps we should disregard gods, with a small ‘g’, like Apollo?

Debate question: What is the bare minimum of attributes that is required to deserve the label God?

[Janx]

...If God valued his choice to actualize our world there would need to be a reason and motive for such an inclination...The attributes of your God make volition impossible.

If part of God's nature involves creativity, then it would seem that God would find a way to be creative. Initiating a universe which could take an active role in creating its own future would seem to be a highly creative endeavor.

Thus, it is God's nature to value a universe which could take an active role in creating its own future over other options. To choose any other universe would be irrational for such a being. Therefore the nature of God is causing Him to act in a singular way. Therefore God's decision to make the world as we know it is not arbitrary.

What makes God hold creativity in high esteem? If there is a reason then there is a cause. If there is no cause then our world was created on a random whim.

Your description of God as, "the simplest possible non-contingent reality possessing no arbitrary limitations regarding causal efficacy" would require God to be irrational and therefore lacking a key component of what we know as volition.

Cheers sir

[TheJackelantern]

What makes God hold creativity in high esteem? If there is a reason then there is a cause. If there is no cause then our world was created on a random whim.

There is no such thing as random though .. Random is only reference to our ability to predict an outcome, action, or event. In actuality, even in chaos theory, random doesn't exist. Snow flakes do not form at random as an example. THe argument that the Universe would randomly form at a whim is as nonsensical as claiming a ball falls randomly when dropped here on Earth in light of gravity..

[EduChris]

...What makes God hold creativity in high esteem?...

Does a master artist paint because she must? Or is she a master painter because she chooses to invest herself in her creative endeavor? Is this an either-or question, or a both-and?

[Janx]

...What makes God hold creativity in high esteem?...

Does a master artist paint because she must? Or is she a master painter because she chooses to invest herself in her creative endeavor? Is this an either-or question, or a both-and?

She is a master painter because of choice yet that choice has a reason and a cause. If she is a master painter because she must then it is not her will. If she is a master painter without reason then she is acting irrationally.

Choice is meaningless without cause. If an artist paints without arbitrary restraints by causality she would be acting without necessity and there would be no reason for a painting to exist.