Let's cut to the chase. Do you have any evidence?

[no evidence no belief]

I feel like we've been beating around the bush for... 6000 years!

Can you please either provide some evidence for your supernatural beliefs, or admit that you have no evidence?

If you believe there once was a talking donkey (Numbers 22) could you please provide evidence?

If you believe there once was a zombie invasion in Jerusalem (Mat 27) could you please provide evidence?

If you believe in the flying horse (Islam) could you please provide evidence?

Walking on water, virgin births, radioactive spiders who give you superpowers, turning water into wine, turning iron into gold, demons, goblins, ghosts, hobbits, elves, angels, unicorns and Santa.

Can you PLEASE provide evidence?

[Goat]

I would say that the majority of Christian scholars would come to different conclusions than the majority of non-Christian scholars wouldn't they? This could apply to scientific studies as well. . . .

That is why so many of them think the Earth is flat and only 6000 years old.

I know of some scholars that believe the Earth is 6000 years old...don't know of any that believe the Earth is flat do you? Can you believe that some scholars actually think that the Earth is around 4 billion years old?? And some even think that there was some magical explosion some 14 billion years ago that formed the universe! Crazy isn't it?

You actually know someone who thinks there was a magical explosion some 14 billion years ago? WOW! Oh you probably mean a fundy, yeah they just can't wrap their heads around science at all. Sorry to interrupt.

Oh no....you can interrupt this is an open discussion...please continue...you do have a point don't you?

Would you care to present the evidence they have, and equally important, show why their interpretation of the evidence is rational?

[Sir Hamilton]

I would say that the majority of Christian scholars would come to different conclusions than the majority of non-Christian scholars wouldn't they? This could apply to scientific studies as well. . . .

That is why so many of them think the Earth is flat and only 6000 years old.

I know of some scholars that believe the Earth is 6000 years old...don't know of any that believe the Earth is flat do you? Can you believe that some scholars actually think that the Earth is around 4 billion years old?? And some even think that there was some magical explosion some 14 billion years ago that formed the universe! Crazy isn't it?

You actually know someone who thinks there was a magical explosion some 14 billion years ago? WOW! Oh you probably mean a fundy, yeah they just can't wrap their heads around science at all. Sorry to interrupt.

Oh no....you can interrupt this is an open discussion...please continue...you do have a point don't you?

Would you care to present the evidence they have, and equally important, show why their interpretation of the evidence is rational?

Please be a little more clear on who "they" is and what you are asking and I will try to get back to you tomorrow.

[Danmark]

Please be a little more clear on who "they" is and what you are asking and I will try to get back to you tomorrow.

Just a few posts ago you wrote:
I know of some scholars that believe the Earth is 6000 years old...don't know of any that believe the Earth is flat do you? Can you believe that some scholars actually think that the Earth is around 4 billion years old?? And some even think that there was some magical explosion some 14 billion years ago that formed the universe!

And now you are asking who the scholars are that YOU were referring to. It would seem that you are in the best position to answer who you were talking about.

[instantc]

I haven't heard a convincing one to date.

Perhaps even more problematic for the theist, if an infinite regress truly is impossible, then that creator god must also have a beginning

If an infinite past is impossible, then the first cause is something like eternal, it cannot exist inside the physical time and thus it doesn't necessarily have a beginning.

[Goat]

I would say that the majority of Christian scholars would come to different conclusions than the majority of non-Christian scholars wouldn't they? This could apply to scientific studies as well. . . .

That is why so many of them think the Earth is flat and only 6000 years old.

I know of some scholars that believe the Earth is 6000 years old...don't know of any that believe the Earth is flat do you? Can you believe that some scholars actually think that the Earth is around 4 billion years old?? And some even think that there was some magical explosion some 14 billion years ago that formed the universe! Crazy isn't it?

You actually know someone who thinks there was a magical explosion some 14 billion years ago? WOW! Oh you probably mean a fundy, yeah they just can't wrap their heads around science at all. Sorry to interrupt.

Oh no....you can interrupt this is an open discussion...please continue...you do have a point don't you?

Would you care to present the evidence they have, and equally important, show why their interpretation of the evidence is rational?

Please be a little more clear on who "they" is and what you are asking and I will try to get back to you tomorrow.

The 'scholars' who say the world is 6000 years old (if they actually can be considered 'scholars'

[Sir Hamilton]

Please be a little more clear on who "they" is and what you are asking and I will try to get back to you tomorrow.

Just a few posts ago you wrote:
I know of some scholars that believe the Earth is 6000 years old...don't know of any that believe the Earth is flat do you? Can you believe that some scholars actually think that the Earth is around 4 billion years old?? And some even think that there was some magical explosion some 14 billion years ago that formed the universe!

And now you are asking who the scholars are that YOU were referring to. It would seem that you are in the best position to answer who you were talking about.

Sorry....that question was directed at Goat....he sort of jumped into the discussion and I just wanted to make sure he and I were discussing the same "they".

[Sir Hamilton]

I would say that the majority of Christian scholars would come to different conclusions than the majority of non-Christian scholars wouldn't they? This could apply to scientific studies as well. . . .

That is why so many of them think the Earth is flat and only 6000 years old.

I know of some scholars that believe the Earth is 6000 years old...don't know of any that believe the Earth is flat do you? Can you believe that some scholars actually think that the Earth is around 4 billion years old?? And some even think that there was some magical explosion some 14 billion years ago that formed the universe! Crazy isn't it?

You actually know someone who thinks there was a magical explosion some 14 billion years ago? WOW! Oh you probably mean a fundy, yeah they just can't wrap their heads around science at all. Sorry to interrupt.

Oh no....you can interrupt this is an open discussion...please continue...you do have a point don't you?

Would you care to present the evidence they have, and equally important, show why their interpretation of the evidence is rational?

Please be a little more clear on who "they" is and what you are asking and I will try to get back to you tomorrow.

The 'scholars' who say the world is 6000 years old (if they actually can be considered 'scholars'

See there Danmark? Good thing that it did ask I thought he was talking about scholars who think the universe is 14 billion years old. Ok goat, here are two Dr. Henry Morris and Dr. John Whitcomb. These two guys authored the Genesis Flood. Great book and you should check it out.These are "young earth creationists" who make some excellent scientific points and I tend to lean towards a young earth. But there are also "old earth creationists" such as Dr. Hugh Ross who believes that the universe is about 14 billion years old and the earth is about 4 billion years old. He makes some excellent points as well. If you would open your mind and take the time to read a little of their work then you might learn something new.

[Haven]

I know of some scholars that believe the Earth is 6000 years old...don't know of any that believe the Earth is flat do you?

I don't know of any scholars who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old. Having a fake PhD (or even a real one) and working for a creationist propaganda organization does not make someone a "scholar." There have been no -- I repeat, NO -- peer-reviewed scientific studies claiming a young Earth.

And if by "scholar" you mean "anyone with a website," there are quite a few "scholars" who believe in a flat Earth.

Can you believe that some scholars actually think that the Earth is around 4 billion years old??

Yes, because there is actual evidence for this. Years of geological, biological, and astronomical study have pointed to this conclusion (and it's actually 4.5 billion, not 4 billion).

Ok goat, here are two Dr. Henry Morris

The late Dr. Henry Morris had a PhD in industrial engineering, which is completely irrelevant to the disciplines of geology, biology, and astronomy, which are crucial to determining the age of the Earth. Simply having a PhD doesn't make you an expert in everything, it only makes you an expert in one little thing. My master's degree and PhD studies (I'm still in school) in sociology don't give me expertise in, say, medieval literature, and it would be irresponsible of me to claim to be a "scholar" in that field.

Dr. John Whitcomb.

Dr. John Whitcomb doesn't have a PhD at all, but a doctorate in theology from a fundamentalist seminary. He has absolutely zero formal training in any area of science. He's hardly a "scholar" in anything but evangelical dogma.

These two guys authored the Genesis Flood. Great book and you should check it out.

I really don't want to beat this dead horse again, but the Genesis flood (assuming they're interpreting it literally) is both physically impossible and completely unevidenced. A wooden boat of that size wouldn't be structurally sound (something engineer Morris should have known), there would have been nowhere for the water to go after the flood, all the animals could not have fit on the boat, many of the animals would have required specialized habitats and diets to survive (which couldn't have been provided on the ark), two (or seven) animals are not enough of a genetic base to found a population, all plant life would have been destroyed in the flood (due to both the force of the floodwaters and the destruction of the soil by salt water, among other things), and last but not least there is zero physical evidence that such a thing ever occurred. The flood is an ancient myth, nothing more.

For more reading on why a literal interpretation of the flood is nonsense:

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-flood.html

These are "young earth creationists" who make some excellent scientific points.

Then why are none of them -- none -- published in any scientific journal? Could it be that their creationist pseudoscience, which has no evidence to back it up, has no scientific merit and therefore could not pass peer review?

[dianaiad]

You actually know someone who thinks there was a magical explosion some 14 billion years ago? WOW! Oh you probably mean a fundy, yeah they just can't wrap their heads around science at all. Sorry to interrupt.

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[Danmark]

See there Danmark? Good thing that it did ask I thought he was talking about scholars who think the universe is 14 billion years old. Ok goat, here are two Dr. Henry Morris and Dr. John Whitcomb. These two guys authored the Genesis Flood. Great book and you should check it out.These are "young earth creationists" who make some excellent scientific points and I tend to lean towards a young earth. But there are also "old earth creationists" such as Dr. Hugh Ross who believes that the universe is about 14 billion years old and the earth is about 4 billion years old. He makes some excellent points as well. If you would open your mind and take the time to read a little of their work then you might learn something new.

Morris and Whitcomb? Even they admit they are likely to be wrong on their 'science,' and admit that one way or the other the Bible is their guide:

From their 'Preface to the Sixth Printing:'
"... the real issue is not the correctness of the interpretation of various details of the geological data, but simply what God has revealed in His Word concerning these matters."

"When and if legitimate weaknesses or mistakes are pointed out, we hope that we shall be willing to acknowledge and revise them. As we have tried repeatedly to stress in the book, our specific discussions of individual geologic problems are tentative and subject to continuing re-evaluation with further study, but these problems do not, and cannot be allowed, to raise questions concerning the basic framework of biblical revelation within which they must be understood."

Part of their claim is based on God being deliberately deceitful by planting evidence to mislead people into thinking the Earth is old. The book is absolute rubbish.