Why do you believe in God?

[McCulloch]

The arguments for believing that there is a God can be categorized as follows:

1. Four Classical Arguments
2. The Argument from First Cause
   1. Everything must have a cause
   2. Causal Chains cannot go on forever
   3. Therefore there must be a first cause, and that is God.
3. The Argument from Design
   1. Something in the universe or the universe itself seems to be designed
   2. Therefore a designer must exist and that is God
4. The Argument from the Anthropic Principle
   1. The universal constants are fine tuned for the existence of humans.
   2. Therefore there must have been a God to fine tune the universe for our existence
5. The Ontological Argument
   1. God is a being than which nothing greater can be conceived.
   2. Assume that God does not exist.
   3. An existent God is a being greater than a non-existent one
   4. If God did not exist, then we could conceive of a being greater than God -- A God that exists.
   5. This is a contradiction, therefore (2) must be false and God exists
   Courtesy of Saint Anselm.

1. Four Subjective Arguments
2. The Argument from Coincidence
   1. There have been some remarkable coincidences.
   2. There must be a reason for those coincidences.
   3. That reason is God.
3. The Argument from Prophecy
   1. A holy book makes prophesies.
   2. A holy book or the adherents of it report that those prophesies have come true.
   3. Therefore whatever else is in the book, such as the claim that God exists must be true.
4. The Argument from Subjectivity and Faith
   1. People feel sure that God exists.
   2. Therefore God exists.
5. The Argument from Divine Interventions, Miracles and such
   1. A miracle occurs, perhaps as a response to prayer.
   2. God exists as evidenced by the divine intervention

1. Four Psycho-Mathematical Arguments
2. The Argument from Redefinition
   1. God is Love or Goodness or some other such thing.
   2. Love, goodness or whatever, clearly exists.
   3. Therefore God exists.
3. The Argument from Cognitive Tendency
   1. Some cognitive tendencies suggest the existence of an all-powerful agent.
   2. God must be that all-powerful agent
4. The Universality Argument and Morality
   1. Across cultures, the similarities in moral values are quite apparent.
   2. They must come from God
5. The Gambling Argument
   1. We can choose to believe or not in God.
   2. If we choose wrongly then negative consequences of choosing to disbelieve are greater than the negative consequences of choosing to believe.
   3. Therefore it is prudent to believe.

The classifications and much of the synopses are from John Allen Paulos, Professor of Mathematics at Temple University, in his book Irreligion, A Mathematician Explains Why the Arguments for God Just Don't Add Up As fallacious as these might seem, these seriously are the arguments put forth by philosophers, theologians, saints, apologists and preachers.

These are the arguments for God. There are numerous subtle variations on them, but essentially, as far as I can tell those who claim that God exists do so based on one or more of these arguments and nothing else.

Why should I believe that there is a God? What are your reasons? Are any of these reasons valid? If your reasons do not fall into any of the above groupings, please let us know why you believe. If you believe for a combination of these reasons, select the strongest one and explain why.

[olavisjo]

That's true - you merely stated that implication was that it was created by something or someone. Which is false. All science is stating is that the universe as we know it appears to have come into existence 14 or so billion years ago.

Good enough, now where did it come from?

It did not 'come from' anywhere. It followed from the universe as we 'do not know it'?

Or from outside the universe as we 'do not know it'.

Do you know?

No, but I have ideas that I am testing.

You also stated "The idea that the universe is eternal is inconsistent with modern observation." This too is an error. Time is a human concept. The universe does not know time.

Do you have any evidence to support an eternal universe?

Short answer - matter/energy can only be changed in form - it cannot be created or destroyed.

Longer answer - this may not be true for something or someone outside the universe. Somewhat along the lines of me taking an empty hard drive and filling it with pictures and sounds without depleting, in the least amount, the place where those pictures and sounds came from.

.

That's true - you merely stated that implication was that it was created by something or someone. Which is false. All science is stating is that the universe as we know it appears to have come into existence 14 or so billion years ago.

Good enough, now where did it come from?

I don't know -- and neither do you -- and neither does anyone else.

I acknowledge that I don't know the origin of the universe and I do not make up stories about "supreme beings" to "explain" what I do not know.

Others make up stories and claim them to be true -- without evidence.

Others may make up stories and claim them to be true, but we are not going to do that.
We are going to form a hypothesis, and test it to see how it stands up in the light of all the evidence that we do have.
First we have to admit the science has very little to offer in terms of the origin of the universe as it is very hard to observe anything that old. Even the golden boy of science, string theory, has very little to say on the subject, as far as I know. (if anyone out there actually understands this theory, any insight on what it is would be much appreciated, when "String Theory for Dummies" comes out I will reserve my copy.)
So we are left with religion, one of which is Christianity and it's holy book the Bible, whose first claim is "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". A claim which to this day has not been refuted.
The Bible does not claim to have the answer to every question that we may ever ask, but I feel that it does claim to be a communication to man from outside the universe from a living god, the Bible does state that it is encrypted in a way that makes it impossible for some to understand. It is like a person who does not enjoy music, he can try to understand it with all his reasoning ability and yet never come to enjoy music as others do.
So if we try to understand the Bible with an intellectual understanding when the Bible itself declares that such a pursuit is pointless, we will never understand the meaning of this document.
I, and many others, have concluded that the Bible is the most meaning full document ever written, and others have concluded that it is merely a Bronze Age myth, so either one of us is seeing something that is not there or one of us is missing something that is there but hidden in plain sight.

[Thought Criminal]

Others make up stories and claim them to be true -- without evidence.

Others may make up stories and claim them to be true, but we are not going to do that.
We are going to form a hypothesis, and test it to see how it stands up in the light of all the evidence that we do have.
First we have to admit the science has very little to offer in terms of the origin of the universe as it is very hard to observe anything that old. Even the golden boy of science, string theory, has very little to say on the subject, as far as I know. (if anyone out there actually understands this theory, any insight on what it is would be much appreciated, when "String Theory for Dummies" comes out I will reserve my copy.)
So we are left with religion, one of which is Christianity and it's holy book the Bible, whose first claim is "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". A claim which to this day has not been refuted.
The Bible does not claim to have the answer to every question that we may ever ask, but I feel that it does claim to be a communication to man from outside the universe from a living god, the Bible does state that it is encrypted in a way that makes it impossible for some to understand. It is like a person who does not enjoy music, he can try to understand it with all his reasoning ability and yet never come to enjoy music as others do.
So if we try to understand the Bible with an intellectual understanding when the Bible itself declares that such a pursuit is pointless, we will never understand the meaning of this document.
I, and many others, have concluded that the Bible is the most meaning full document ever written, and others have concluded that it is merely a Bronze Age myth, so either one of us is seeing something that is not there or one of us is missing something that is there but hidden in plain sight.

This is god of the gaps. If science has no answer, then it means we just don't know. Religion is full of answers, but none of them are true.

TC

[bernee51]

That's true - you merely stated that implication was that it was created by something or someone. Which is false. All science is stating is that the universe as we know it appears to have come into existence 14 or so billion years ago.

Good enough, now where did it come from?

It did not 'come from' anywhere. It followed from the universe as we 'do not know it'?

Or from outside the universe as we 'do not know it'.

So your guess is as good as mine.

Do you know?

No, but I have ideas that I am testing.

And the methodology for testing is…?

You also stated "The idea that the universe is eternal is inconsistent with modern observation." This too is an error. Time is a human concept. The universe does not know time.

Do you have any evidence to support an eternal universe?

Short answer - matter/energy can only be changed in form - it cannot be created or destroyed.

Longer answer - this may not be true for something or someone outside the universe.

Something outside the universe? Do you know of anything ‘outside the universe’? How do you know this? You would not be indulging in a ‘special plead’ would you?

.

That's true - you merely stated that implication was that it was created by something or someone. Which is false. All science is stating is that the universe as we know it appears to have come into existence 14 or so billion years ago.

Good enough, now where did it come from?

I don't know -- and neither do you -- and neither does anyone else.
I acknowledge that I don't know the origin of the universe and I do not make up stories about "supreme beings" to "explain" what I do not know.

Others make up stories and claim them to be true -- without evidence.

Others may make up stories and claim them to be true, but we are not going to do that.
We are going to form a hypothesis, and test it to see how it stands up in the light of all the evidence that we do have.
First we have to admit the science has very little to offer in terms of the origin of the universe as it is very hard to observe anything that old. Even the golden boy of science, string theory, has very little to say on the subject, as far as I know. (if anyone out there actually understands this theory, any insight on what it is would be much appreciated, when "String Theory for Dummies" comes out I will reserve my copy.)
So we are left with religion, …

Hang on – you said you were going to test a hypothesis. You have yet to do that.

…of which is Christianity and it's holy book the Bible, whose first claim is "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". A claim which to this day has not been refuted.

I prefer the Hindu creation story – vwert poetic. Iit too has never been refuted.
There are quite a few to choose from – none of which would appear to be refuted.

The Bible does not claim to have the answer to every question that we may ever ask, but I feel that it does claim to be a communication to man from outside the universe from a living god,…

So the evidence for a ‘living god outside the universe’ is the very book which is claimed to be ‘god’s word’. We can add begging the question to special plead.

the Bible does state that it is encrypted in a way that makes it impossible for some to understand.

You however have no such difficulty understanding the bible.

I, and many others, have concluded that the Bible is the most meaning full document ever written, and others have concluded that it is merely a Bronze Age myth, so either one of us is seeing something that is not there or one of us is missing something that is there but hidden in plain sight.

Or it could be logical fallacy #3 – a false dilemma.

[JoeyKnothead]

Science of the gaps?

Is there a word or term that describes theists relabeling atheist arguments?

Science seeks to understand the gaps in its theories. Religion seeks to insert God into these gaps. As the gaps in scientific knowledge become ever smaller, so too must God in order to fit them.

Someone owes me a new keyboard.