Why no straight answers?

[Zzyzx]

.
After eight years debating here I have YET to encounter a defender of fundamentalism / literalism / traditionalism (or the Bible in general) who will openly, accurately, honestly answer fundamental questions about Christian beliefs – including the following (with truthful answers in bold font)

What verifiable evidence exists (beyond Bible tales and claims, opinions, testimonials and speculation) to substantiate that:

Jesus was anything more than human? None

Humans possess a soul? None

An afterlife exists? None

Miracles described in Bible tales actually occurred? None

Any of the claimed events such as floods, earthquakes, darkening sky, star stopping, Earth ceasing rotation, etc occurred as described? None

God intercedes in human affairs or life events? None

Bible writers were actually inspired by God? None



Why no answers? Could it be refusal to admit that in the absence of verifiable information, accepting the basic beliefs of Christianity must be based on "Take my (or his) word for it" and that doing so is not a rational basis for making decisions on matters of importance?

[Realworldjack]

I have read the consensus, (meaning those who oppose the traditional view of authorship). Of course, I have also read the opposing side that attempts to defend the traditional view.

So then you're aware of both the consensus, and the disparity between the strength of the evidence/arguments in favor of both views (which is undoubtedly the reason for this consensus, particularly since the dominant position is incongruous with the religious commitment of most Biblical scholars, who are themselves Christians). Gotcha.

Again, it seems all you can do is point to the consensus, however you have failed to share with us any of the evidence or findings concerning this consensus, and you have not addressed any of the points I have made in my most recent post. This certainly seems to indicate to me, all you have done is read somewhere, "the majority of Biblical scholars reject the traditional view of Scripture", and it is from this you have based your opinion.

Well, allow me to help you out here. I agree with you, and clearly understand, "the majority of Biblical scholars reject the traditional view of Scripture", but how does this in any way determine truth?

[Zzyzx]

.

Well, allow me to help you out here. I agree with you, and clearly understand, "the majority of Biblical scholars reject the traditional view of Scripture", but how does this in any way determine truth?

It doesn't.

What do you suggest as a means of determining truth of scripture?

[Realworldjack]

.

Well, allow me to help you out here. I agree with you, and clearly understand, "the majority of Biblical scholars reject the traditional view of Scripture", but how does this in any way determine truth?

It doesn't.

What do you suggest as a means of determining truth of scripture?

I have not suggested a way to determine the truth of Scripture. However, I do think it is best for someone to do their own thinking instead of allowing others, such as the "consensus of scholars", to think for them, especially if one cannot even cite the evidence or findings of this consensus.

In other words, it may be best to actually read, and study, not only the findings, and reasons of this consensus, but also read, and study the content of the Bible itself, in order to determine for yourself if the findings of the consensus is legitimate, instead of excepting these findings, simply because, "the scholars say so."

Having said this, allow me to also say the same thing concerning Christians. In other words, instead of simply believing because this is the way you were brought up to believe, or believing because of what your parents, or the pastor told you to believe, it may be best to dig in, and actually study to determine what it is you actually believe.

In the end, what is the difference between, "the Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it", and "the scholars say it, I believe it, and that settles it"? I believe it is best to not only know what you believe, but also, why you believe it!

[Zzyzx]

.

Well, allow me to help you out here. I agree with you, and clearly understand, "the majority of Biblical scholars reject the traditional view of Scripture", but how does this in any way determine truth?

It doesn't.

What do you suggest as a means of determining truth of scripture?

I have not suggested a way to determine the truth of Scripture.

That is a wise move – perhaps realizing that there is no known way to determine truth of scripture.

However, I do think it is best for someone to do their own thinking instead of allowing others, such as the "consensus of scholars", to think for them, especially if one cannot even cite the evidence or findings of this consensus.

Agreed. Everyone should make up their own version of religion and call it Christianity.

In other words, it may be best to actually read, and study, not only the findings, and reasons of this consensus, but also read, and study the content of the Bible itself, in order to determine for yourself if the findings of the consensus is legitimate, instead of excepting these findings, simply because, "the scholars say so."

I and many other non-believers and former-believers have done exactly that – and determined for ourselves that the Bible is largely useless ravings of religion promoters telling stories and giving opinions about their belief in gods (and a lot of disinformation about the real world).

Having said this, allow me to also say the same thing concerning Christians. In other words, instead of simply believing because this is the way you were brought up to believe, or believing because of what your parents, or the pastor told you to believe, it may be best to dig in, and actually study to determine what it is you actually believe.

Many who do that are now Ex-Christians.

In the end, what is the difference between, "the Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it", and "the scholars say it, I believe it, and that settles it"? I believe it is best to not only know what you believe, but also, why you believe it!

In the end, religious beliefs seem to be based upon 1) unverifiable stories and claims by others ("Take my word for it or his or this book") or 2) personal emotional, mental and/or psychological "experiences" (including dreams, visions, hallucinations or whatever).

[Realworldjack]

.

Well, allow me to help you out here. I agree with you, and clearly understand, "the majority of Biblical scholars reject the traditional view of Scripture", but how does this in any way determine truth?

It doesn't.

What do you suggest as a means of determining truth of scripture?

I have not suggested a way to determine the truth of Scripture.

That is a wise move – perhaps realizing that there is no known way to determine truth of scripture.

However, I do think it is best for someone to do their own thinking instead of allowing others, such as the "consensus of scholars", to think for them, especially if one cannot even cite the evidence or findings of this consensus.

Agreed. Everyone should make up their own version of religion and call it Christianity.

In other words, it may be best to actually read, and study, not only the findings, and reasons of this consensus, but also read, and study the content of the Bible itself, in order to determine for yourself if the findings of the consensus is legitimate, instead of excepting these findings, simply because, "the scholars say so."

I and many other non-believers and former-believers have done exactly that – and determined for ourselves that the Bible is largely useless ravings of religion promoters telling stories and giving opinions about their belief in gods (and a lot of disinformation about the real world).

Having said this, allow me to also say the same thing concerning Christians. In other words, instead of simply believing because this is the way you were brought up to believe, or believing because of what your parents, or the pastor told you to believe, it may be best to dig in, and actually study to determine what it is you actually believe.

Many who do that are now Ex-Christians.

In the end, what is the difference between, "the Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it", and "the scholars say it, I believe it, and that settles it"? I believe it is best to not only know what you believe, but also, why you believe it!

In the end, religious beliefs seem to be based upon 1) unverifiable stories and claims by others ("Take my word for it or his or this book") or 2) personal emotional, mental and/or psychological "experiences" (including dreams, visions, hallucinations or whatever).

That is a wise move – perhaps realizing that there is no known way to determine truth of scripture.

I would not call it a, "move" I would call it reality, and this is not the first time I have acknowledged it. So, what's your point?

Agreed. Everyone should make up their own version of religion and call it Christianity.

I believe I can detect a hint of sarcasm in this statement, but I do not understand the point? Are you suggesting that someone who rejects the consensus of the scholars, are not following true Christianity? Please explain the point.

I and many other non-believers and former-believers have done exactly that – and determined for ourselves that the Bible is largely useless ravings of religion promoters telling stories and giving opinions about their belief in gods (and a lot of disinformation about the real world).

I understand this, and think it is wonderful, and this was exactly my point. In other words, if you have thoroughly examined the evidence, and have come to your conclusions, and can explain your reasons, I am fine with that. The problem comes in when, in a debate format someone says something like, "the Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it", or "the scholars have said it, I believe it, and that settles it." This is exactly what I was responding to. I was not in any way suggesting, "if you were to do this you would certainly be a Christian, and see things my way", and I would think you would know this since I have on more than one occasion stated, "I believe we can both look at the same exact evidence, we can both use reason, and logic, and still come to completely different conclusions". So what's your point?

Many who do that are now Ex-Christians.

I understand this as well. So again, what's your point? You also understand, there are those who were at one point professed Atheists, who are now Christian after examining evidence, right? But I don't see the point either way?

In the end, religious beliefs seem to be based upon 1) unverifiable stories and claims

It is interesting that you chose the word, "seem" in that sentence. Are you certain that you would not rather use the word, "are"? But since you used the word, "seem" is it possible that it is different than it, "seems"? Because I assure you that it is!

You see, I went to great lengths in citing, and refuting a Biblical scholar who opposed the authorship of two of the Biblical letters, in one of my responses to, "enviousintheeverafter". I received a response from him, but I did not hear a peep from him, nor anyone else concerning my refutation. Now, you may not agree with my refutation, and you may want to refute what I had to say, but the fact is, I gave internal evidence that these letters, could in fact have been written by the same person.

I could continue on, and on, as long as you like, giving this sort of evidence, but the point is, you have your opinion concerning the Biblical writings, which you are certainly welcome to, but in the end that is all it is, you have not, and cannot prove your opinion to be true, all you can do is to give the reasons for what you claim to believe about the Biblical writings. However, as I have said in the past, if you are convince now that you can actually prove your position, go right ahead, I'll be waiting.

("Take my word for it or his or this book")

As I have stated in the past, "I am not a take my word for it type of person". I have become convinced of the Bible by intently reading and studying it, and by looking at the internal, and external evidence in favor of it, and I have at least shared some of this evidence on this site. I do not claim to have proven the Bible, in fact I believe I have stated "that would be impossible" I understand all I can do is to give the reasons, along with the evidence concerning my convictions. Again, if you can prove your position concerning the Bible, go right ahead.

personal emotional, mental and/or psychological "experiences"

As far a emotions, and experience, I am completely against basing ones beliefs on such things, and have spoken out against it here on this site, and elsewhere. As far as the mental, and psychological, I am not sure what you are talking about, unless you are suggesting, Christians are mentally, and psychologically unstable, but surely that is not the case?

[Zzyzx]

.

That is a wise move – perhaps realizing that there is no known way to determine truth of scripture.

I would not call it a, "move" I would call it reality, and this is not the first time I have acknowledged it. So, what's your point?

My point is "There is no known way to determine truth of scripture" so therefore anyone who claims to know truth from scripture is blowing smoke – claiming to know the unknowable.

Agreed. Everyone should make up their own version of religion and call it Christianity.

I believe I can detect a hint of sarcasm in this statement, but I do not understand the point? Are you suggesting that someone who rejects the consensus of the scholars, are not following true Christianity? Please explain the point.

The point is that there is no such thing as authentic (or true or real) Christianity but instead tens of thousands of different OPINIONS by groups or individuals – made up in the mind from scriptures that cannot be shown / known to be anything more than imagination.

I and many other non-believers and former-believers have done exactly that – and determined for ourselves that the Bible is largely useless ravings of religion promoters telling stories and giving opinions about their belief in gods (and a lot of disinformation about the real world).

I understand this, and think it is wonderful, and this was exactly my point. In other words, if you have thoroughly examined the evidence, and have come to your conclusions, and can explain your reasons, I am fine with that. The problem comes in when, in a debate format someone says something like, "the Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it", or "the scholars have said it, I believe it, and that settles it." This is exactly what I was responding to. I was not in any way suggesting, "if you were to do this you would certainly be a Christian, and see things my way", and I would think you would know this since I have on more than one occasion stated, "I believe we can both look at the same exact evidence, we can both use reason, and logic, and still come to completely different conclusions".

You state my point rather well – Christianity is a hodgepodge of opinions

So what's your point?

My point is to present these ideas for readers to consider as they evaluate the claims and stories of religionists.

Many who do that are now Ex-Christians.

I understand this as well. So again, what's your point? You also understand, there are those who were at one point professed Atheists, who are now Christian after examining evidence, right? But I don't see the point either way?

I have encountered a few accounts of non-believers becoming Christians after reading the Bible – and MANY accounts (including here in the Forum) of Christians reading the Bible and renouncing the faith after discovering that the "Diamonds to Dung ratio" (phrase borrowed from Thomas Jefferson) is unacceptable, that the tales are incredible (Not credible; surpassing belief; too extraordinary and improbable to admit of belief;), that the "advice" is for the most part useless, that atrocities are glamorized if "in the name of God", and/or that it is all hogwash.

In the end, religious beliefs seem to be based upon 1) unverifiable stories and claims

It is interesting that you chose the word, "seem" in that sentence. Are you certain that you would not rather use the word, "are"?

I use the word "seem" and other qualifying terms to acknowledge that I cannot speak with certainty about the conclusions or actions of others. I do not claim to know what I do not know and/or cannot cite references.

But since you used the word, "seem" is it possible that it is different than it, "seems"?

Of course, anything may be "possible" – and there may be some real reasons to worship invisible, undetectable, supernatural entities that have not been shown to be anything more than imagination.

Because I assure you that it is!

Can you offer EVIDENCE rather than assurance? "Take my word for it (or his or this book)" isn't convincing to me – though that is evidently sufficient for many believers.

You see, I went to great lengths in citing, and refuting a Biblical scholar who opposed the authorship of two of the Biblical letters, in one of my responses to, "enviousintheeverafter". I received a response from him, but I did not hear a peep from him, nor anyone else concerning my refutation. Now, you may not agree with my refutation, and you may want to refute what I had to say, but the fact is, I gave internal evidence that these letters, could in fact have been written by the same person.

I am much more concerned about the truth and accuracy of stories and claims than which unidentified person wrote which accounts.

I could continue on, and on, as long as you like, giving this sort of evidence, but the point is, you have your opinion concerning the Biblical writings, which you are certainly welcome to, but in the end that is all it is, you have not, and cannot prove your opinion to be true,

Agreed. Each of us has an opinion regarding Bible tales. Mine is that they have not been shown to be truthful and accurate – or anything more than imagination. Is that incorrect?

all you can do is to give the reasons for what you claim to believe about the Biblical writings. However, as I have said in the past, if you are convince now that you can actually prove your position, go right ahead, I'll be waiting.

See above.

Also, Jack, I have no illusions about convincing you of anything – but instead address my comments to readers with the intent of providing sound reasons for doubting / questioning / disbelieving supernatural tales.

("Take my word for it or his or this book")

As I have stated in the past, "I am not a take my word for it type of person".

Good. That is common ground.

I have become convinced of the Bible by intently reading and studying it,

How is this NOT taking the book's word for such things as the "resurrection"? If Jesus did not come back to life as claimed, the whole New Testament is a fraud (as even Paul/Saul is said to have indicated).

and by looking at the internal, and external evidence in favor of it, and I have at least shared some of this evidence on this site.

What is the external evidence in favor of ANY of the significant claims relating to the divinity of Jesus – the "miracles", the "resurrection", the "100% human and 100% God, etc?

External evidence . . . not "the book says so in two places"

I do not claim to have proven the Bible, in fact I believe I have stated "that would be impossible" I understand all I can do is to give the reasons, along with the evidence concerning my convictions.

Thank you. That is quite reasonable. Each of us (and readers) decides what to accept as truthful and accurate.

Again, if you can prove your position concerning the Bible, go right ahead.

What is there to prove about "I don't believe Bible tales"? What is there to prove about "The claims have not been shown to be anything more than imagination"?

personal emotional, mental and/or psychological "experiences"

As far a emotions, and experience, I am completely against basing ones beliefs on such things, and have spoken out against it here on this site, and elsewhere.

We are in agreement.

As far as the mental, and psychological, I am not sure what you are talking about,

Mental and/or psychological episodes include hearing voices, having "visions", hallucinating, and/or being delusional. In extreme cases such things may be regarded as mental imbalance. Even dreams are mental / psychological experiences (that some regard as being real).

unless you are suggesting, Christians are mentally, and psychologically unstable, but surely that is not the case?

Of course I do not make any such suggestion (as you imply).

[Haven]

[Replying to post 293 by Realworldjack]

What evidence would convince you of the truth of another religion's scriptures? How much evidence would you need to determine that the Qur'an, the Book of Mormon, or the Guru Granth Sahib was true?

That's how much evidence it would take to convince a non-Christian that the Bible is true.

[sevensealscom]

[Replying to post 296 by Zzyzx]

My point is "There is no known way to determine truth of scripture" so therefore anyone who claims to know truth from scripture is blowing smoke – claiming to know the unknowable.

What I want to know is Would you believe this interpretation to be true or not, if you believed the Bible?

Revelation 13:18 HERE IS WISDOM. Let HIM{latter day Moses} that HATH UNDERSTANDING COUNT {count how many} the NUMBER {the digit} of the BEAST {beast of Babylon with seven heads and ten horns}: for IT {the number/digit} is {also}the NUMBER of a MAN {false prophet being the USA}; and his NUMBER {of 6} is {written three times as} SIX HUNDRED THREE SCORE AND SIX{666}.

Latter day Moses has the prophetic wisdom to reveal the true meaning of the number (digit) six (6), which is written three times as 666. In Revelation 13:18, latter day Moses is instructed to “count� the “number� of the beast with seven heads and ten horns, which is also the number of a figurative man (being the false prophet/lamb-like beast) representing the USA. In verse 18, there are “three numbers� of “six� to “count�; therefore, the answer to the question is three, after latter day Moses counts how many digits (number sixes) are written in Revelation 13:18.

The seven-headed ten-horned beast – whose name is Babylon as written in the Book of Revelation – began its first reigning period as the sixth kingdom in spiritual Goshen, after five figurative kingdoms had fallen. This reveals that its number is six (6) because it is the number six (sixth) kingdom that reigned after the fifth kingdom fell.

When latter day Moses began to reveal his new message from beneath six seals during the remaining 1260 days of the first 2300-day period, the USA had already caused the union of nations (represented as a seven-headed ten-horned beast/kingdom) to unite and agree to enforce the USA's ideals on any non conforming nation. At that time, the union of nations were ruling as the latter day Babylonian dragon/beast (coalition/kingdom). This dragon/beast was reigning as the number 6 kingdom during its first of three separate reigning periods named confusion (Babylon). Five previous kingdoms in Revelation 17:10 had already fallen when the number 6 kingdom of latter day Babylon began to reign. Accordingly, the latter day Babylonian beast was reigning in spiritual Goshen as the number six kingdom for 1290 days, which ended 3½ days after the end of the first 2300-day period.

The USA again caused the union of nations to unite in agreement to enforce on any non complying nation the USA's ideals that it envisions for the world. From that time, the union of nations was reigning in spiritual Canaan for 1290 days of its second reigning period as the seventh kingdom. This 1290-day reigning period ended 3½ days after the end of the second 2300-day.

The USA will again cause the union of nations to unite in agreement to enforce on any non complying nation the USA's ideals that it envisions for the world. From that time, the union of nations will be reigning in spiritual Canaan for 1290 days of its third reigning period as the “eighth� kingdom (see Revelation 17:10, 11). This “eighth� reigning kingdom (beast/coalition) is the “image� of the previous beast (kingdom/coalition), which reigned over the world from within the spiritual land of Canaan as the seventh kingdom. Hence, it is the same seven-headed ten-horned beast (kingdom/union of nations) of latter day Babylon/confusion that is united (healed) each time by the latter day false prophet (USA) during the time latter day Moses is revealing his message from the scroll of life. The seven-headed ten-horned beast's final reigning period of 1290 days will end by a rock’s impact in the USA 3½ days after the end of the third 2300-day period.

The seven-headed ten-horned beast’s name is Babylon/confusion, as written in Revelation 14:8. This beast (union of nations) will have reigned as the same sixth kingdom during three separate periods. Its number of 6 (because its the sixth kingdom) is written as 6, 6, and 6. This reveals that the same latter day beast (kingdom/union of nations) of confusion will have reigned as the number six kingdom three separate times. During the seven-headed ten-horned Babylonian beast's first reign as the sixth kingdom, latter day Moses was revealing the visions and oracles written beneath six seals. During this same beasts' second reign as the seventh kingdom, latter day Moses was revealing the visions and oracles written on six angels with trumpets. During the same beast's third reign, latter day Moses will be revealing the six lights and six thunders of the seventh angel with trumpet. Hence the same number 6 kingdom rules three separate times.

The sixth kingdom (union of nations) reigned for 1290 days until the union of nations became divided in enforcing the USA's ideals. The seventh kingdom (union of nations) reigned for 1290 days until the union of nations became divided in enforcing the USA's ideals. The eighth kingdom reigns for 1290 days until the union of nations are divided in enforcing the USA's ideals when a rock impacts the USA.

After five kingdoms had fallen, the number 6 (sixth) kingdom (dragon/beast) reigned as the sixth kingdom. Thereafter, the same number 6 (sixth) kingdom (beast) reigned as the seventh kingdom. Thereafter, the same number 6 (sixth) kingdom (beast) shall again reign but as the eighth kingdom. This is the reason why there are three sixes (666) to count (see Revelation 17:10, 11).

In the past type, the lamb like beast with two horns and one head represented the kingdom of Judah, which was situated in the southern half of Palestine/Canaan. Its one head represented the capital city of old Jerusalem. The two horns of its head represented the tribe (horn) of Judah and the tribe (horn) of Benjamin, which were both (two horns/tribes) in the southern kingdom/nation of Judah. When King Nebuchadnezzar of old Babylon was ruling over old rebellious Jerusalem according to the word of the Prophet Jeremiah, the rebellious leadership of Jerusalem rebelled three separate times against the word of Elohiym by refusing to remain part of old Babylon's kingdom as advised by Jeremiah the prophet. These three rebellions by old Jerusalem typify the three rebellions of latter day Babylon against latter day Jeremiah's (latter day Moses') message. Latter day Moses' message revealed from beneath six seals, then six angels with trumpets, and thereafter revealed from six lights of the seventh angel with trumpet to warn of the imminent rock's impact and effects in the USA.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 296 by Zzyzx]

My point is "There is no known way to determine truth of scripture" so therefore anyone who claims to know truth from scripture is blowing smoke – claiming to know the unknowable.

What I want to know is Would you believe this interpretation to be true or not, if you believed the Bible?

Revelation 13:18 HERE IS WISDOM. Let HIM{latter day Moses} that HATH UNDERSTANDING COUNT {count how many} the NUMBER {the digit} of the BEAST {beast of Babylon with seven heads and ten horns}: for IT {the number/digit} is {also}the NUMBER of a MAN {false prophet being the USA}; and his NUMBER {of 6} is {written three times as} SIX HUNDRED THREE SCORE AND SIX{666}.

Latter day Moses has the prophetic wisdom to reveal the true meaning of the number (digit) six (6), which is written three times as 666. In Revelation 13:18, latter day Moses is instructed to “count� the “number� of the beast with seven heads and ten horns, which is also the number of a figurative man (being the false prophet/lamb-like beast) representing the USA. In verse 18, there are “three numbers� of “six� to “count�; therefore, the answer to the question is three, after latter day Moses counts how many digits (number sixes) are written in Revelation 13:18.

The seven-headed ten-horned beast – whose name is Babylon as written in the Book of Revelation – began its first reigning period as the sixth kingdom in spiritual Goshen, after five figurative kingdoms had fallen. This reveals that its number is six (6) because it is the number six (sixth) kingdom that reigned after the fifth kingdom fell.

When latter day Moses began to reveal his new message from beneath six seals during the remaining 1260 days of the first 2300-day period, the USA had already caused the union of nations (represented as a seven-headed ten-horned beast/kingdom) to unite and agree to enforce the USA's ideals on any non conforming nation. At that time, the union of nations were ruling as the latter day Babylonian dragon/beast (coalition/kingdom). This dragon/beast was reigning as the number 6 kingdom during its first of three separate reigning periods named confusion (Babylon). Five previous kingdoms in Revelation 17:10 had already fallen when the number 6 kingdom of latter day Babylon began to reign. Accordingly, the latter day Babylonian beast was reigning in spiritual Goshen as the number six kingdom for 1290 days, which ended 3½ days after the end of the first 2300-day period.

The USA again caused the union of nations to unite in agreement to enforce on any non complying nation the USA's ideals that it envisions for the world. From that time, the union of nations was reigning in spiritual Canaan for 1290 days of its second reigning period as the seventh kingdom. This 1290-day reigning period ended 3½ days after the end of the second 2300-day.

The USA will again cause the union of nations to unite in agreement to enforce on any non complying nation the USA's ideals that it envisions for the world. From that time, the union of nations will be reigning in spiritual Canaan for 1290 days of its third reigning period as the “eighth� kingdom (see Revelation 17:10, 11). This “eighth� reigning kingdom (beast/coalition) is the “image� of the previous beast (kingdom/coalition), which reigned over the world from within the spiritual land of Canaan as the seventh kingdom. Hence, it is the same seven-headed ten-horned beast (kingdom/union of nations) of latter day Babylon/confusion that is united (healed) each time by the latter day false prophet (USA) during the time latter day Moses is revealing his message from the scroll of life. The seven-headed ten-horned beast's final reigning period of 1290 days will end by a rock’s impact in the USA 3½ days after the end of the third 2300-day period.

The seven-headed ten-horned beast’s name is Babylon/confusion, as written in Revelation 14:8. This beast (union of nations) will have reigned as the same sixth kingdom during three separate periods. Its number of 6 (because its the sixth kingdom) is written as 6, 6, and 6. This reveals that the same latter day beast (kingdom/union of nations) of confusion will have reigned as the number six kingdom three separate times. During the seven-headed ten-horned Babylonian beast's first reign as the sixth kingdom, latter day Moses was revealing the visions and oracles written beneath six seals. During this same beasts' second reign as the seventh kingdom, latter day Moses was revealing the visions and oracles written on six angels with trumpets. During the same beast's third reign, latter day Moses will be revealing the six lights and six thunders of the seventh angel with trumpet. Hence the same number 6 kingdom rules three separate times.

The sixth kingdom (union of nations) reigned for 1290 days until the union of nations became divided in enforcing the USA's ideals. The seventh kingdom (union of nations) reigned for 1290 days until the union of nations became divided in enforcing the USA's ideals. The eighth kingdom reigns for 1290 days until the union of nations are divided in enforcing the USA's ideals when a rock impacts the USA.

After five kingdoms had fallen, the number 6 (sixth) kingdom (dragon/beast) reigned as the sixth kingdom. Thereafter, the same number 6 (sixth) kingdom (beast) reigned as the seventh kingdom. Thereafter, the same number 6 (sixth) kingdom (beast) shall again reign but as the eighth kingdom. This is the reason why there are three sixes (666) to count (see Revelation 17:10, 11).

In the past type, the lamb like beast with two horns and one head represented the kingdom of Judah, which was situated in the southern half of Palestine/Canaan. Its one head represented the capital city of old Jerusalem. The two horns of its head represented the tribe (horn) of Judah and the tribe (horn) of Benjamin, which were both (two horns/tribes) in the southern kingdom/nation of Judah. When King Nebuchadnezzar of old Babylon was ruling over old rebellious Jerusalem according to the word of the Prophet Jeremiah, the rebellious leadership of Jerusalem rebelled three separate times against the word of Elohiym by refusing to remain part of old Babylon's kingdom as advised by Jeremiah the prophet. These three rebellions by old Jerusalem typify the three rebellions of latter day Babylon against latter day Jeremiah's (latter day Moses') message. Latter day Moses' message revealed from beneath six seals, then six angels with trumpets, and thereafter revealed from six lights of the seventh angel with trumpet to warn of the imminent rock's impact and effects in the USA.

I'm guessing you meant to post this in random ramblings. Perhaps a mod can move it for you?

[sevensealscom]

[Replying to post 293 by Realworldjack]

What evidence would convince you of the truth of another religion's scriptures? How much evidence would you need to determine that the Qur'an, the Book of Mormon, or the Guru Granth Sahib was true?

That's how much evidence it would take to convince a non-Christian that the Bible is true.

And what evidence will it take to convince you that after 1466 posts in a little over 18 months, you have achieved nothing and convinced no one who wasn't already convinced. I'll give you some evidence why you should throw the towel in when what you say is like a broken record that keeps repeating itself.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed).