Non-believers to BURN IN HELL!

[JoeyKnothead]

Some'll say that if you reject Bible tales, you'll burn in Hell.

For debate:
Please offer some means to confirm the veracity of the claim.

If the claim can't be shown to be true and factual, is it uncivil, or perhaps more importantly morally right to present such an argument in order to encourage religious belief?

Why might a response of "Go to Hell" be inappropriate in the face of such a threat to one's well-being, while the threat itself may receive a pass?

[JohnPaul]

I would be happy to admit that my opinion on this subject is influenced by the fact that I am a moderate.
Not an anti-theist.

Perhaps I am mistaken but I try to be open minded and use a well rounded approach when dealing with believers, maybe even a little compassion....

Humans are humans after all. Easily fooled.

Plus I was a former Christian, can't forget where I came from...be kinda hypocritical now that I got the Truth on lock down?

So its pretty simple, I do not believe in hell, so being told I am headed there does not bother me.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Hello, David 2.0,

My last post was not aimed at you!

Sorry I may have given that impression by attaching it to your post.

John

[grahamsnumber]

It seems to me that the whole (popular, traditional) idea of Hell, independent of its cruelty, is totally useless. There are only two reasons to punish someone: (a) to prevent the person from engaging in the same bad behavior in the future, or (2) to prevent others from engaging in it, based on the fact that they witness the punishment. In the classic, popular, version, in which sinners are tortured forever, neither of these considerations applies. The first because the punished individual, once condemned, has no opportunity to change his or her behavior, and the second because no one ever witnesses the torture of another person in Hell in time to decide to avoid their own participation. That leaves only the threat. But since the threat is not convincing to many people (usually the very same people that God wants to punish), a huge number of individuals won't respond to it (i.e., they don't believe it is real).

So what's the point?

[Moses Yoder]

Some'll say that if you reject Bible tales, you'll burn in Hell.

I would like to know the date, time, name of person, and approximate transcript of conversation of the last 3 people, or if you only have one thats fine too, you talked to who claimed to be Christians and then proceeded to tell you you were going to hell if you do not believe the Bible. I believe if I did so on this site the monitors would discipline me.

From John Chapter 3;

1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.�
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.�
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?�
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.�

According to the Son of God Himself, the only requirement for entering heaven is to be born again. You do not have to believe the Bible, you do not have to be righteous, you do not have to be a good person, you can drive a Mercedes if you want, etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum. The only requirement to enter heaven is to be born again. Jesus did not say you need to be born again and be righteous, or born again and be a good person. He said "You must be born again."

[bluethread]

According to the Son of God Himself, the only requirement for entering heaven is to be born again. You do not have to believe the Bible, you do not have to be righteous, you do not have to be a good person, you can drive a Mercedes if you want, etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum. The only requirement to enter heaven is to be born again. Jesus did not say you need to be born again and be righteous, or born again and be a good person. He said "You must be born again."

How does one know what "born again" means without the Tanakh? The concept is built on the premiss that only the convert needs to be "born again". Nicodemus no doubt accepted the common belief that The Promise covered anyone born a Jew. Though I am not sure that what is translated as hell in the Scriptures matches Dante's Inferno, being "born again" is not speaking of avoiding such a place, but about attaining eternal life, as do many of the other things mentioned so far.

[Filthy Tugboat]

Some'll say that if you reject Bible tales, you'll burn in Hell.

For debate:
Please offer some means to confirm the veracity of the claim.

If the claim can't be shown to be true and factual, is it uncivil, or perhaps more importantly morally right to present such an argument in order to encourage religious belief?

Why might a response of "Go to Hell" be inappropriate in the face of such a threat to one's well-being, while the threat itself may receive a pass?

I think it is important to point out that Christianity is not a religion,

Perhaps we're not talking about the same Christianity, or we're using a different definition of religion. Chrisitanity as in the largest religion in the world that surrounds the 66 books of the Bible focusing on the lives of many prophets and their relation to God is most certainly a religion in the conventional sense. What are you using to define Christianity as "not a religion"?

and that the Bible never says that if you reject what it says you will go to hell.

OK.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 33:

Some'll say that if you reject Bible tales, you'll burn in Hell.

I would like to know the date, time, name of person, and approximate transcript of conversation of the last 3 people, or if you only have one thats fine too, you talked to who claimed to be Christians and then proceeded to tell you you were going to hell if you do not believe the Bible. I believe if I did so on this site the monitors would discipline me.

For clarificational purposes, cause sometimes clarificatin' is our friend, even if we think he's just being aggravatin'...

"For all y'all who assert that non-believers'll burn in Hell..."

From John Chapter 3
...

So, had I read the extensive Bible quotes because I thought they were authoritative to begin with, I'd assume Moses Yoder is not one of that bunch carryin' on like the OP suggests.

According to the Son of God Himself, the only requirement for entering heaven is to be born again.
...

Where has it been established that God ever procreated? Where has it been established the Son in question is a product of this procreatin'? Where has it been established this Son in question ever uttered a single, solitary word?

Where has it been established this is now the Theology, Doctrine & Dogma section of this site?


I 'preciate the post, and agree that there's insufficient reason to present as factual the claim challenged up there in the OP, or at least as it was modified upon Moses Yoder's seeming request.

Y'all be good.

[spayne]

Perhaps we're not talking about the same Christianity, or we're using a different definition of religion. Chrisitanity as in the largest religion in the world that surrounds the 66 books of the Bible focusing on the lives of many prophets and their relation to God is most certainly a religion in the conventional sense. What are you using to define Christianity as "not a religion"?

No I am pretty sure we are using the same definition of religion. I think the difference lies in what it truly means to be a Christian. Here is how I explained it in another thread:

I have said this before that Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship with the one and true God revealed in the Bible, and through the life and work of Jesus Christ, who revealed his divinity to the world by His wisdom, His power, His compassion, His love, His grace, His mercy and His incredible statements of who He is. Jesus by His own claim came to set us free. Free from everything in the world that oppresses people, including religion. You must agree that this is unlike any of the other religions in the world. And if you don't agree with this statement that Jesus came to set us free, consider that Jesus never used the word "Christian" and never said anything about setting up a religion.

Rather than start a religion, Jesus started a movement of passionate disciples who would dedicate their lives to him and his message because they believed him when he said "I am the way, the truth and the life."

This is all very nonreligious stuff, which is one of the things that makes it so awesome.

[Filthy Tugboat]

Perhaps we're not talking about the same Christianity, or we're using a different definition of religion. Chrisitanity as in the largest religion in the world that surrounds the 66 books of the Bible focusing on the lives of many prophets and their relation to God is most certainly a religion in the conventional sense. What are you using to define Christianity as "not a religion"?

No I am pretty sure we are using the same definition of religion. I think the difference lies in what it truly means to be a Christian. Here is how I explained it in another thread:

I have said this before that Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship with the one and true God revealed in the Bible, and through the life and work of Jesus Christ, who revealed his divinity to the world by His wisdom, His power, His compassion, His love, His grace, His mercy and His incredible statements of who He is. Jesus by His own claim came to set us free.

It can be all of these things and a religion.

Free from everything in the world that oppresses people, including religion.

And in doing so, a religion was created called Christianity.

You must agree that this is unlike any of the other religions in the world.

I certainly don't agree with that, Christianity is extremely similar to Islam, many traditions and practices are similar to Hinduism, much of it's symbolism is similar to a lot of pagan religions, and some of it's stories originated in the polytheistic religion in Sumeria and various other cultures around the area.

And if you don't agree with this statement that Jesus came to set us free, consider that Jesus never used the word "Christian" and never said anything about setting up a religion.

He didn't have to, the religion still exists.

Rather than start a religion, Jesus started a movement of passionate disciples who would dedicate their lives to him and his message because they believed him when he said "I am the way, the truth and the life."

The problem is, that did start a religion. That movement was a religious movement. It can be everything you've said and still be a religion. I doubt it is most of what you said, concerning relationship with God and all the actual religious stuff but it is still a religion.

This is all very nonreligious stuff, which is one of the things that makes it so awesome.

.

I completely disagree, it is all very very religious. Like similar to other religions as well as fitting the description of a religion.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

You must agree that this is unlike any of the other religions in the world.

This sort of statement is simply an example of Christian mythology in action! Christianity is in fact a composite of many of the various religious beliefs which were popular in the Mediterranean region 2,000 years ago.

Rather than start a religion, Jesus started a movement of passionate disciples who would dedicate their lives to him and his message because they believed him when he said "I am the way, the truth and the life."

Actually it was the author of "The Gospel According to John" that wrote those words, many decades after Jesus was supposed to have been executed. What Jesus himself said is a very circumspect question since Jesus himself wrote NOTHING during his lifetime. All we have are the words put into his mouth by others in the form of anonymously authored documents written many years after Jesus was dead.

[Moses Yoder]

Where has it been established that God ever procreated? Where has it been established the Son in question is a product of this procreatin'? Where has it been established this Son in question ever uttered a single, solitary word?

If you can prove to me that you exist, I can prove to you that God had a Son who walked and talked on the Earth. (Warning; this is a similar proposition that my mother proposed to me when I was a little boy; she told me if I can take some salt and put it on a bird's tail, I can catch the bird. I actually believed her and asked for the salt shaker and went out and tried it. I found it to be true.) For myself, I believe God had a son based on the evidence of the universe and the Bible. That is sufficient for me, but then I am not as smart as some. For my own existence, I have neither evidence nor proof, but I have faith in the Bible's explanation; God made me because He loves me, therefore I do in fact exist. It's all a giant leap of faith.

P.S. I own some birds now, a dove and some finches, and have never tried catching them.