The Bible mentions several acts of God that if a human did would be considered wrong. Some examples would be when the Bible mentions God killing babies and ordering others to do so. I wonder if God is obligated to follow the same morals as us. One common response I get from some Christians is that God is God so he can do what he wants. If we try to do some of the objectionable things on our own that he's done then we're guilty of playing God. For example, if a human kills an innocent baby, the human would be guilty of murder, but if God does it, some Christians defend it as being right since it's God. Christians with that position see no wrong in it just as long as the child goes to a better afterlife but they don't factor in the means of the baby's death which is by 'murder' as far as I could tell. Why the double standard?
Debate Question:
1) Does God have a different set of morals to follow or does he follow the same ones that he expects humans to follow?
2) If God does not follow the rules he expects us to follow, is that fair to his followers? Why or why not?
Is God held to a different moral standard?
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Is God held to a different moral standard?
Post #31Yes, ever since 1973.Angel wrote:...Does America execute BABIES or PURPOSELY execute the innocent (KNOWING that they are innocent) with the guilty?...
-
Angel
Re: Is God held to a different moral standard?
Post #32So if you agree that America (since 1973) and God has executed the innocent, how does this help the case for God?
I know at least in the US, there's a debate as far as when life becomes a person or sentient so there's some unknowns here. If people were certain that it was a 'person' they were killing in the womb at the early stages of development then I'm sure some abortion advocates would reverse their position. Whereas, in God's decisions, that answer was known since he was not only ordering for pregnant women to be killed but also babies already born.
I'd be happy if you can answer for the greater scheme of the OP rather than nitpicking on one point which really didn't help the Christian case.
Re: Is God held to a different moral standard?
Post #33Well, according to Christian theology, God gives all life without thereby relinquishing the right to determine the length of each person's life. He gives one person 120 years, another person dies in the womb, while most of us get something in between. In a sense God executes all of us, since ultimately the timing and manner of each of our deaths reach back to God's decision to give life in the first place. But then again, Christian theology also assumes that this life is not all there is; earthly death is or can be a transition to new life.Angel wrote:...I'd be happy if you can answer for the greater scheme of the OP rather than nitpicking on one point which really didn't help the Christian case...
-
David 2.0
Re: Is God held to a different moral standard?
Post #34Hi....Angel wrote:So if you agree that America (since 1973) and God has executed the innocent, how does this help the case for God?
I know at least in the US, there's a debate as far as when life becomes a person or sentient so there's some unknowns here. If people were certain that it was a 'person' they were killing in the womb at the early stages of development then I'm sure some abortion advocates would reverse their position. Whereas, in God's decisions, that answer was known since he was not only ordering for pregnant women to be killed but also babies already born.
I'd be happy if you can answer for the greater scheme of the OP rather than nitpicking on one point which really didn't help the Christian case.
I can't speak for EduChris but to me his comment does speak on the idea of human morality.
In some contexts it is moral for humans, to kill "potential" human beings.
Or to just plain kill.
Not God of course.
-
Angel
Re: Is God held to a different moral standard?
Post #35I agree with some of what you said here except for when you talk about the means of death. You've also left out some details in the stories of where God has killed or ordered others to kill babies.EduChris wrote:Well, according to Christian theology, God gives all life without thereby relinquishing the right to determine the length of each person's life. He gives one person 120 years, another person dies in the womb, while most of us get something in between. In a sense God executes all of us, since ultimately the timing and manner of each of our deaths reach back to God's decision to give life in the first place. But then again, Christian theology also assumes that this life is not all there is; earthly death is or can be a transition to new life.Angel wrote:...I'd be happy if you can answer for the greater scheme of the OP rather than nitpicking on one point which really didn't help the Christian case...
It would seem that under your logic, that God can do anything he wants, including rape, killing, starving, and ordering others to do the same and even to the 'innocent'. And all of the reason given is, "I'm God". In any case, what's so special about God's goodness if he doesn't have to play by the rules? From my limited experience, including speaking for myself, this would likely drive many far away from Christianity if that's all you got.
But then when I apply God's own standards to these actions in question, I see conflict. I see that it's part of God's morals to not 'murder'. Yes, according to the Bible it can be said that God gives life, but what I don't see is that it mentions that he can take it back any way he wants, including killing someone, in the context of a punishment for being innocent (which opens the door for murder), especially for the actions of the guilty.
Post #36
I think you already know my accounting of the problem of evil. As I stated in the post you replied to, should we forego existence in order to avoid actual pain?Adamoriens wrote:It's not the capacity for pain that exacerbates the problem of evil, but the experience of it.
Re: Is God held to a different moral standard?
Post #37Is it a positive step to bring medically induced abortion into the mix here Educhris? Really?
To answer Angel's question though, it seems that MANY nations not just America does it, every time they drop a bomb or use chemical weaponry and they have been doing THAT long before 1973(specifically regarding the US here), on innocents well past the "potential life" stage.
Catalyst.
Re: Is God held to a different moral standard?
Post #38God does not order the indiscriminate "killing of the innocent"--at least not if you stay within the parameters of the biblical narratives. Per the narrative, God ordered the destruction of a corrupt society and a corrupt religion, after having first given that society plenty of time to demonstrate its irremedial culpability.Angel wrote:...You've also left out some details in the stories of where God has killed or ordered others to kill babies...It would seem that under your logic, that God can do anything he wants, including rape, killing, starving, and ordering others to do the same and even to the 'innocent'...what's so special about God's goodness if he doesn't have to play by the rules?...
Also, the language in the narratives used rhetorical battle bravado--idioms commonly used in that culture--which were never interpreted literally and cannot be interpreted literally, given the simple fact that the Bible records that the Canaanites continued living among the Israelites. As Paul Copan says, "the conquest of Canaan was far less widespread and harsh than many people assume...ancient Near Eastern accounts readily used...obliteration language even when the events didn't literally happen that way" (p. 170-171).
Moreover, the account of Rahab shows that mercy was available to Canaanites who demonstrated a positive response to the God of Israel. Combine all of this with the fact that the towns and cities mentioned were very likely military garrisons and the picture we end up with is far different than what might appear upon a surface reading of the texts.
In short, Jews and Christians today have never interpreted these stories as somehow condoning general warefare against innocents. The stories are ancient records using ancient idioms to describe a one-time takeover of territory from a corrupt soceity for God's overriding purpose of finally bringing blessing to all nations.
-
Adamoriens
- Sage
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:13 pm
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Post #40
Does our own suffice?Adamoriens wrote:Is there some possible world where this would be the case?
