The Urantia Book

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:34 am

Bro Dave wrote:Yes, there is the eye witness account [to Jesus' resurrection] given in the Urantia Book.

Bro Dave has put forward the

Book as eyewitness testimony to support the allegation that Jesus was raised from the dead. Is the Urantia Book a reliable source of information? Does it meet the criterion used by historians or scientists or theologians?

Bro Dave · Post by **Bro Dave** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:56 pm

CJK wrote:
We took Jesus' message to "Love one another", and ignored the magnificent model he offered us on how to live well, and instead of following the religion he practiced, went ahead and created a religion about him instead!

This is an awesome illustration of the christian dogma. There is no doubt in my mind that Jesus was an enlightened man. There are however, quite a few doubts in my mind as to whether or not he was the 'son of God'. That is where the mind-numbing mythology begins.

You are not alone! Jesus, like you and me, was indeed a Son of God. He was also much more, in that he is a "Creator Son", and participates in bringing a Universe of his own into existence, and then by personal interaction with it on several levels, become a Master Son.

There is no evidence or eye-witness accounts of the folkloric tales of Jesus, and never will be. The Urantia Book is far from hard evidence;

No one makes any claim that the Urantia Book is "hard evidence". It offers a highly detailed, very consistent explanation for who we are, how we got where we are, and our relationship with God and the rest of the Universe. It is self validating, or not your choice.

The Urantia Book, first published by the Urantia Foundation in 1955, was authored by celestial beings as a special revelation to our planet, Urantia.

Authored by celestial beings? I don't think so.

Am I surprised? Its not at all important who authored it, IF it is true! And, as you are well aware, that is determined by each individual.

It seems to me the Religious authorities have misconstrued the tale of Jesus and used him as a mouthpiece to sway the masses.

Yes, that seems to be the universal failing of religions in general. They misuse whatever insight to truth they are given, to justify whatever they want to do.

I've always found it hard not to think twice when someone tells me I must 'surrender my soul'

Why would you want to do that?!?!(or for that matter, how would that even be possible?)

Surrender my soul? To Jesus? How do I know I've given it to him? Why does He want my soul? What did you put in this Holy Water?

Good questions! Religions have so muddied the waters, that instead of providing reassuring answers, they serve up self serving boiler plate. God, the father of our very existence, made us to be imperfect, but with infinite potential, to become perfected. By giving us free will to choose, we take the raw materials of living, and the experiences we gain, and convert them into wisdom. God, being already perfect, experiences our growth from imperfection to perfection, so He is our partner. Can you "opt-out?" Sure, but not until you fully understand the depth of that decision. God, like you and me, would never turn His back on one of his kids. So, does God "need" you? Yes, the universe is technically incomplete without any of us. Still, ultimately its our choice.

I would rather build upon my soul with the words of this enlightened man, rather than live in complete fear and loathing for it.

The masses are rather gullible, to not be able to see this truth. Group thought is a horrible thing.

Think for yourself, question authority.

Sounds to me like you are doing fine. Just try not to limit what is possible

Bro Dave

CJK · Post by **CJK** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:08 pm

You are not alone!

Oh, but I am. There is not but one being in the entire cosmos that holds the exact same identity.

Jesus, like you and me, was indeed a Son of God. He was also much more, in that he is a "Creator Son", and participates in bringing a Universe of his own into existence, and then by personal interaction with it on several levels, become a Master Son.

How did you come to this conclusion, how can you prove it, and what relevance is it to the universe?

No one makes any claim that the Urantia Book is "hard evidence". It offers a highly detailed, very consistent explanation for who we are, how we got where we are, and our relationship with God and the rest of the Universe. It is self validating, or not your choice.

That is highly illogical. How could it be a highly detailed, very consistent explanation, if it is not based on but one form of evidence, and has no clear author?(Celestial beings just don't cut it.)

Life itself is self-validating. Life is a self fulfilling prophecy. If I belive that some man in the clouds dictates everything that is, then it will validate itself in the way that I perceive it.

Regardless of what some radical Neo-orthodox christian faith(cult) has to offer, it will never completely explain in detail my own personal connection with the universe.

Why would God create us different if were to be all the same?

Am I surprised?

Probably not given you belive in a folkloric myth.

Its not at all important who authored it, IF it is true!

How could any text be true if you do not know who authored it? It's folklore.

Quote: CJK
It seems to me the Religious authorities have misconstrued the tale of
Jesus and used him as a mouthpiece to sway the masses.

Quote: Bro Dave
Yes, that seems to be the universal failing of religions in general. They misuse whatever insight to truth they are given, to justify whatever they want to do.

Agreed.

Quote: CJK
I've always found it hard not to think twice when someone tells me I must 'surrender my soul'

Quote: Bro Dave
Why would you want to do that?!?!

So that I would not have to think about what to do with it. If I am afraid that my soul will face 'eternal damnation' I can surrender it to God, and therefore be 'saved'. Then I'll assume my heavenly rewards are vouchsafed, given that I do what the church tells me.

(or for that matter, how would that even be possible?)

Apparently, by 'repenting' or as I like to call it; turning away from your own nature.

Quote: CJK
Surrender my soul? To Jesus? How do I know I've given it to him? Why does He want my soul? What did you put in this Holy Water?

Quote: Bro Dave
Good questions! Religions have so muddied the waters, that instead of providing reassuring answers, they serve up self serving boiler plate. God, the father of our very existence, made us to be imperfect, but with infinite potential, to become perfected.

I agree that we all have infinite potential, but tell me Brother Dave; What is perfection? And do not give me the "because we all fall short of the glory of God" nonsense. I want to know what the Glory of is made of. What is it's substance, the moral fiber?

In my own personal opinion, we are all perfectly imperfect.

Quote: Bro Dave
By giving us free will to choose, we take the raw materials of living, and the experiences we gain, and convert them into wisdom.

I agree with this, but again, how do you know who has given us a free will?

God, being already perfect, experiences our growth from imperfection to perfection, so He is our partner.

See, the problem with this statement is that there is a myriad of possibilities as to what God's definition of perfect is. There are however, an equal number of definitions for what 'God's perfect' is to any given pastor of any given faith. It would be mind-numbing to go through each and every one of these (infinite) possibilities. There is simply no end to the 'God' argument.

Quote: CJK
I would rather build upon my soul with the words of this enlightened man, rather than live in complete fear and loathing for it.

The masses are rather gullible, to not be able to see this truth. Group thought is a horrible thing.

Think for yourself, question authority.

Quote: Bro Dave
Sounds to me like you are doing fine. Just try not to limit what is possible

With all due respect Brother Dave, who is the one limiting what is possible?

QED · Post by **QED** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:58 am

I think it's pretty clear that the UB was written in the tradition of all other myths created to bring the fuzziness of universal origins into sharp focus. Arguing here I often forget my own position that mankind is too intellectually immature to answer such questions. If we were really honest about this I think we all should find our reactions to this situation rather amusing. The trouble is everybody in the religion business is just too dead-pan serious.

Bro Dave · Post by **Bro Dave** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:19 pm

QED wrote:I think it's pretty clear that the UB was written in the tradition of all other myths created to bring the fuzziness of universal origins into sharp focus. Arguing here I often forget my own position that mankind is too intellectually immature to answer such questions. If we were really honest about this I think we all should find our reactions to this situation rather amusing. The trouble is everybody in the religion business is just too dead-pan serious.

Uhhh, are we "knotching out" the scientific community here?

While I agree with a part of your premise, that religion often brings an unrealistic "clarity", this is also true of scienctists. None of us knows anything with great certainty, that is commuicatable to anyone else... Period! And yes, we are indeed too intellectually immature to answer such questions. But, religion, like science has found the progresive approximation is a valuble tool in assumtotically(sp) approaching the final value. Come to think of it, God may be considered the vertical assumtote, which science approaches from on direction, and religion from the other!

Bro Dave

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:01 pm

Hi guys,

Wanted to chime in. New to the site. Thanks to Bro Dave for the tip. I have had the UB for 24 years now and fully believe that it is what it says it is.

It makes sense.

I look forward to joining in on the discussions here.

Woody in Georgia

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:31 am

Woody wrote:Hi guys,
Wanted to chime in. New to the site. Thanks to Bro Dave for the tip. I have had the UB for 24 years now and fully believe that it is what it says it is.
It makes sense.
I look forward to joining in on the discussions here.
Woody in Georgia

Welcome Woody

Is there anything that supports Bro Dave's use of the UB as historical evidence?

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:09 am

Hi there Mr. Mac !

Thank you for the warm greeting. Nice site this is.

Answer to your question. Yes indeed. But I cannot answer for Bro Dave.

The UB is replete with much proof and evidence of things both scientific and historic; otherwise the UB contains new revelation. Revelatory material is self evident, self explanitory and self sufficient.

Although I can "explain" The Urantia Book to you or someone...ah....gee....it's a big book. 2097 pages worth. It would be better for a person to start reading it for themselves and acquire this experience first-hand as it were, rather than attempting to obtain such information in a second-hand kind of way.

It is however entirely appropriate to receive recommendations from your fellows about such things like me saying now to you: "Hey friend, I've come accross really awesome. I think it is good, true and beautiful. Here it is. I freely share it with you. Check it out !" This is little different than me recommending a good resturant down the street to you except that the subject matter is information rather than food.

Thanks and learn well,

Woody

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:36 am

Woody wrote:The UB is replete with much proof and evidence of things both scientific and historic; otherwise the UB contains new revelation. Revelatory material is self evident, self expalanitory and self sufficient.

When someone recommends to me that I read a particular book, not for entertainment but for factual information, I can usually assess the reliability of the book in a number of ways. One way is to check out the credentials of the author. Is he or she recognized by his or her peers as a reliable source of information on the subject? Another is to check the sources of information, is the author building on reliable authentic data or is the author going off on some wild tangent? One other way is to read reviews of the work by others whose opinion I trust. Sometimes I seek negative review and try to assess if the reviewer's negative opinions appear to be rational or ranting.
Supporters of the Urantia Book all seem somewhat reluctant to provide me with any reason to invest my time in reading it other than what boils down to, "well I liked it and trust it". Perhaps, if it is not too much trouble, you could provide just one or two examples of the "much proof and evidence of things both scientific and historic".

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:34 am

Hey McC,

Hmmm. Well this is different. This is not a typical book. The following are not my words but a frank and brief description reguarding the "big picture" surrounding this material.

The UB has been brought to us as the 5th in the continuing series of revelations of truth from "God", (our Creator-appointed Local Universe supervisor Sons), to us, His children here on Earth.

So the UB is also known as: The 5th Epocal Revelation of Truth

The entire book was authored by a variety of superplantary personalities. Those of whom who have personally served on this planet in some appointed functioned are mentioned by personal name. Other authors who havn't served here are listed by their function-title only.

So, I'm frankly stating that this book was not written by human beings and yet it is here among us. So, needless to add, it is the only written material on Earth of its kind. That is a startling and highly remarkable incidence in itself and one would think warrants checking into. At least it was for me.....having an open and inquiring mind.

As to content.....I have already stated that I have read this book, actually read it all more than a dozen times and continue to refer back to it for reference and continuing study purposes frequently....and I believe that it is what it says it is and claims to be.

Beyond that......I have nothing to prove to anyone. This information is what it is and it is now up to each individual who so chooses to check it out and make their own decision as to wether or not they can incorporate these teachings into their personal lives.

My only tasks are to attempt to share the effacacy of this material with others, this being necessary as the fact of the existence of this book is not being advertized or publicized at this time by the primary publisher, The Urantia Foundation in Chicago, and I can certainly further elect to share my views and assist others with the answering of relevant questions as I choose to be helpful in this way, and as I can.

So McC, again, you will have to decide if you are interested in this material as described, and you are free to check into it all you want and make your own decision. The book is available for viewing online at a variety of websites including www.urantia.org and www.truthbook.com to name two.

Thank you for your interest bud,

Woody

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:27 am

McCulloch wrote:Perhaps, if it is not too much trouble, you could provide just one or two examples of the "much proof and evidence of things both scientific and historic".

Woody wrote:... The UB has been brought to us as the 5th in the continuing series of revelations of truth from "God", (our Creator-appointed Local Universe supervisor Sons), to us, His children here on Earth. ...
The entire book was authored by a variety of superplantary personalities. Those of whom who have personally served on this planet in some appointed functioned are mentioned by personal name. Other authors who havn't served here are listed by their function-title only.

I didn't think you would cite any of the "much proof and evidence of things both scientific and historic."

How about evidence of superplantary personalities.

Woody wrote:So, I'm frankly stating that this book was not written by human beings and yet it is here among us. So, needless to add, it is the only written material on Earth of its kind. That is a starting and highly remarkable incidence in itself and one would think warrants checking into. ...

A book who's publishers claim extraterrestrial authorship. I hate to burst your bubble, but it has been done before:

I was an Extraterrestrial 'Walk In' From Venus
Was Huang-ti, the legendary "Yellow Emperor," actually from another world?
Electronic Voice Phenomena
From Cthulhu to Cloning
The Aetherius Society is an organization founded by Dr. George King (1919-1997) in 1955. It mixes yoga, Theosophy and a form of spiritualism which involves yogic mediumship in the channeling of advanced extraterrestrial beings.
Ralism is the belief system promoted by the Ralian Movement, a religious organization which believes that scientifically advanced extraterrestrials known as the Elohim (one of the words used to refer to God in the Torah) created life on Earth through genetic engineering, and that a combination of human cloning and "mind transfer" can ultimately provide immortality.

Woody wrote:As to content.....I have already stated that I have read this book, actually read it all more than a dozen times and continue to refer back to it for reference and continuing study purposes frequently....and I believe that it is what it says it is and claims to be.

So the only evidence to the book's authenticity is "I've read it and believe it." Would you mind offering the credentials of yourself or someone else who has read the book, testifying to their expertise in evaluating the truth claims of such things.