More on the virgin birth

[atheist buddy]

This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.

20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.�

22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23�The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel�-- which means, “God with us.�

24When Joseph awoke, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

That is what it says in the Book of Matthew about Jesus's virgin birth.

In short: Mary gets pregnant, Joseph knows that he had no part in that. So then Joseph has a dream that it was the Holy Spirit that got Mary pregnant.... and he believes it.

You believe that Mary was a virgin, because some guy you never met wrote down that Joseph - who he never met - had a dream that Mary's got pregnant without having sex.

Question for debate: ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

I mean, could there be a less justifiable belief than that?

Would you believe in pink flying elephants wearing top hats, if I told you that my cousin once dreamed of one?

When you had a nightmare as a child, what did mommy tell you? Did she ever explain to you that DREAMS ARE NOT REAL?

If, as an adult, you're capable of understanding that just because you dreamed that an ogre was going to hit you with a stone club, it doesn't mean that ogres are real, then why is it that you're not capable of understanding that just because some guy dreams that his wife got pregnant without having sex, it doesn't mean that virgin births are real?

[Clownboat]

what came first, the chicken or the egg?

the creation of Adam from the dust of the earth and the begetting of the Christ from the womb of Mary

man from dust, man from the spirit

each one a miraculous event in physical history, by our standards

so which came first, the chicken or the egg?

if your answer it is the chicken, then you must by default accept creation.,

and if you say the egg, then you still have to answer for the ingenuity of the DNA

A proto-hen laid an egg, and a proto-rooster fertilized it. But when the genes from ma and pa almost-chicken fused, they combined in a new way, creating a mutation that accidently made the baby different from its parents. Although it would take millennia for the difference to be noticed, that egg was different enough to become the official progenitor of a new species, now known as … the chicken! So in a nutshell (or an eggshell, if you like), two birds that weren’t really chickens created a chicken egg, and hence, we have an answer: The egg came first, and then it hatched a chicken.

so why is it so hard to believe in the miracle for the perfect man becoming created in the womb of a woman by the spirit of creation?

is it because of the sexual content that this world has filled a man's heart with that you don't believe?

No, it is because we are biological creatures that reproduce via sexual reproduction. I must assume you knew this?

[RaiderGonzo]

what came first, the chicken or the egg?

the creation of Adam from the dust of the earth and the begetting of the Christ from the womb of Mary

man from dust, man from the spirit

each one a miraculous event in physical history, by our standards

so which came first, the chicken or the egg?

if your answer it is the chicken, then you must by default accept creation.,

and if you say the egg, then you still have to answer for the ingenuity of the DNA

A proto-hen laid an egg, and a proto-rooster fertilized it. But when the genes from ma and pa almost-chicken fused, they combined in a new way, creating a mutation that accidently made the baby different from its parents. Although it would take millennia for the difference to be noticed, that egg was different enough to become the official progenitor of a new species, now known as … the chicken! So in a nutshell (or an eggshell, if you like), two birds that weren’t really chickens created a chicken egg, and hence, we have an answer: The egg came first, and then it hatched a chicken.

so why is it so hard to believe in the miracle for the perfect man becoming created in the womb of a woman by the spirit of creation?

is it because of the sexual content that this world has filled a man's heart with that you don't believe?

No, it is because we are biological creatures that reproduce via sexual reproduction. I must assume you knew this?

Good afternoon Mr. Clown, or is that a Stork I see on your avatar., LoL., Just playing man., just playing

I welcome conversation in good jest., that's all it is on my part

I'm not wishing to convince you of anything, for in my faith, it is God who draws you to His understanding, and not I, but Him

Going back to your analysis, I have to ask, where did your two different types of chickens come from? And ~> they were chickens, right? It wasn't a bird of this type and a bird of that other type was it? Can a crow fertilize a pigeon, is my question?

[atheist buddy]

what came first, the chicken or the egg?

the creation of Adam from the dust of the earth and the begetting of the Christ from the womb of Mary

man from dust, man from the spirit

each one a miraculous event in physical history, by our standards

so which came first, the chicken or the egg?

if your answer it is the chicken, then you must by default accept creation.,

and if you say the egg, then you still have to answer for the ingenuity of the DNA

so why is it so hard to believe in the miracle for the perfect man becoming created in the womb of a woman by the spirit of creation?

is it because of the sexual content that this world has filled a man's heart with that you don't believe?

This is a convoluted and horribly structured argument, but it boils down to an argument from ignorance.

You're saying this:

We don't know how life came to be, therefore maybe Mary was a Virgin.

Nonsense.

[RaiderGonzo]

This is a convoluted and horribly structured argument, but it boils down to an argument from ignorance.

You're saying this:

We don't know how life came to be, therefore maybe Mary was a Virgin.

Nonsense.

LOL, well thank you for calling me ignorant., I'm flattered



no, but serious., overall there's only a few ways you can accept reality to be..
1. either an accidental one
2. or a created one
3. (?) a big question mark

i'm just stating what my ignorant views on reality are., that indeed a child was born unto us, and He is to be called God with Us

born of the spirit, inserted into biology, so that we can understand both

spirit and man, and be edified to a true understanding to what makes us tic toc

[Zzyzx]

.

I'm not wishing to convince you of anything,

Same here. I only suggest that people consider the evidence presented and make sound decisions based upon that evidence.

for in my faith, it is God who draws you to His understanding, and not I, but Him

It might become apparent that "God" and/or "his representatives" do not seem to be doing a very good job of drawing anyone to his understanding in these thread. In fact, it seems almost the other way around when God proponents do not fare very well in debate.

How can that be explained? Doesn't recruitment work when people ask for evidence of truth?

[atheist buddy]

This is a convoluted and horribly structured argument, but it boils down to an argument from ignorance.

You're saying this:

We don't know how life came to be, therefore maybe Mary was a Virgin.

Nonsense.

LOL, well thank you for calling me ignorant., I'm flattered

Actually I didn't call you ignorant.

You just convicted yourself of that by demonstrating that you don't know what an argument from ignorance is.

no, but serious., overall there's only a few ways you can accept reality to be..
1. either an accidental one
2. or a created one
3. (?) a big question mark

i'm just stating what my ignorant views on reality are., that indeed a child was born unto us, and He is to be called God with Us

born of the spirit, inserted into biology, so that we can understand both

spirit and man, and be edified to a true understanding to what makes us tic toc

Ok, fine, that's your belief.

What is your reason for believing this?

[RaiderGonzo]

.

I'm not wishing to convince you of anything,

Same here. I only suggest that people consider the evidence presented and make sound decisions based upon that evidence.

for in my faith, it is God who draws you to His understanding, and not I, but Him

It might become apparent that "God" and/or "his representatives" do not seem to be doing a very good job of drawing anyone to his understanding in these thread. In fact, it seems almost the other way around when God proponents do not fare very well in debate.

How can that be explained? Doesn't recruitment work when people ask for evidence of truth?

You speak of recruitment as if you're a military person, and for that I salute you., not as a person of conviction of your political understanding, but as a person who understands the economical and servitude needs.

While these threads may indeed seem to fail in drawing anyone to Christ, it is Him who speaks to each one in his heart, thus we cannot judge it all a failure; for it is all according to one's elected time that you draw near.

[RaiderGonzo]

This is a convoluted and horribly structured argument, but it boils down to an argument from ignorance.

You're saying this:

We don't know how life came to be, therefore maybe Mary was a Virgin.

Nonsense.

LOL, well thank you for calling me ignorant., I'm flattered

Actually I didn't call you ignorant.

You just convicted yourself of that by demonstrating that you don't know what an argument from ignorance is.

no, but serious., overall there's only a few ways you can accept reality to be..
1. either an accidental one
2. or a created one
3. (?) a big question mark

i'm just stating what my ignorant views on reality are., that indeed a child was born unto us, and He is to be called God with Us

born of the spirit, inserted into biology, so that we can understand both

spirit and man, and be edified to a true understanding to what makes us tic toc

Ok, fine, that's your belief.

What is your reason for believing this?

my word are my words, and they indeed convict me for a cause
and in my heart, all things make sense
without a heart, how can things make sense?

if you don't have a heart, you're tossed to and fro like the wind
your mind wonders to and fro
without real answers to satisfy your soul


was Mary a Virgin?

can you say otherwise?

nonsense, you say

according to the laws of physics

but how did those same laws of physics come about?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

was Mary a Virgin?

can you say otherwise?

Since humans do not reproduce asexually, then all of our experience on the subject strongly indicates that Mary was not a virgin, ie., the probability that she was inseminated prior to becoming pregnant is something approaching 100%. So, yes it is possible to say otherwise with a high level of confidence.

nonsense, you say

according to the laws of physics

but how did those same laws of physics come about?

The laws of physics occur because positively and negatively charged particles exist which interact with each other on the basis of attraction/repulsion. This is responsible for everthing that occurs. It is essentially the same system computers use, 0 and 1, either/or. A simple system when left to it's own devices produces the laws of physics, and an entire universe.

[RaiderGonzo]

was Mary a Virgin?

can you say otherwise?

Since humans do not reproduce asexually, then all of our experience on the subject strongly indicates that Mary was not a virgin, ie., the probability that she was inseminated prior to becoming pregnant is something approaching 100%. So, yes it is possible to say otherwise with a high level of confidence.

nonsense, you say

according to the laws of physics

but how did those same laws of physics come about?

The laws of physics occur because positively and negatively charged particles exist which interact with each other on the basis of attraction/repulsion. This is responsible for everthing that occurs. It is essentially the same system computers use, 0 and 1, either/or. A simple system when left to it's own devices produces the laws of physics, and an entire universe.

^ ^ all that you say follows a mathematical physical order of things, but it doesn't factor in the non-physical aspect of our beings

that factor, the one that is in your heart and mind, that's the one that the spiritual sense of things speak to

that part you can never ever answer with physical logic, for it is incomprehensible unless you delve into all things with your heart and not just your mind

thus it is useless to try and figure it out through just physical/material equations

math is the language of the universe, but the word is the language of the spirit