When do we accept God's utter defeat?

[Willum]

According to the Bible, Satan defeated God ~10,000 years ago, instilling death, evil, and imperfection into the world.

God was unable to do anything about it, except of course, punish the victims. Which he has done according to the Bible many times, including a terracide, and the promise of one to come.

We hear songs and such about his triumph and victory, but let's face it; God was completely trounced by Satan, and the only thing we've heard from him is a good talk and excuses. The sending of his son, didn't really do anything measurable, except fanfare.

So assuming the Bible is true and all that, but taking it it in the light of history, and with a grain of salt, just how long before we acknowledge God lost at the starting line, and has been defeated at every turn, since?

What does this really say about the entity?

[ttruscott]

Satan wins the vast majority of souls that this God had created.

imCo
This does not come close to what the Bible says. 1/3 of some group were cast down from the dragon's anger. At most it is one third of all of creation but more probably it was 1/3 of the elect who followed Satan into sin by rebelling against the need for the judgment...a common stance of Christians (and others) who argue long and hard against the necessity of the judgement.

Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars from the sky, tossing them to the earth.

toss: also means flung, swung, threw, throw, thrown, tossing which all sound too harsh if they were on his side. If he considered them enemies, this words fits much better.

This is BEFORE the defeat of Satan and his demon army Rev 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. It seems illogical for him to toss 1/3 of creation to earth if he was entering into the great battle and they were on his side.

So that leaves them to be the elect angels who became sinners and live on earth as the sinful good seed, the sheep gone astray, the sinful people of the kingdom, the legitimate people of GOD who are here to be trained in righteousness by painful discipline.*

So Satan did not get the vast majority of souls that this God had created by any stretch because these 1/3 will be redeemed and made holy and will slam the gates on him and his angels, the goats, and dance on the day of judgement. So those who are truly his and condemned with him are but a small part of the whole of creation, too few to notice in the long run and are only 'many' on earth when compared to the sinful elect sheep who are sown, Matt 13:36-39, into earthly society from Hades a few at a time.

The dragon and his angels were sent into the deepest part of Hades in the earth as per 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Tartarus, [in Hades] putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment... as a prison and only allows them life on earth within HIS plan for the redemption of HIS sinful elect as their evil opens the eyes of HIS sinful elect to the necessity of the judgement and they repent unto holiness.

* Brownie points to anyone who knows all the references to these allusions without looking,

[Willum]

[Replying to ttruscott]

We're talking human souls, not angels thrown down from heaven.

According to Revelation 7:4 very few humans go to heaven.

[1213]

[Replying to post 24 by 1213]

I am just applying a consistent logical interpretation of scripture.
This way, the Bible makes sense.

God creates something.
God can't stop Satan from despoiling it.
God can't repair the damage either.

Yeah, but you are making bad interpretation of the scriptures, when the scripture points out that Satan’s time will end, now is not just the right time for it, because people need to know evil first as people wanted. I don’t see any Biblical reason to think Satan can’t be stopped. Also I don’t see any Biblical reason why God can’t repair damage.

Also, in Biblical point of view, soul is the valuable thing and Satan can’t really destroy soul.

[1213]

[Replying to post 25 by 1213]

I say god is cruel if she allows Satan to do evil deeds. If you believe that satan is harming people and that god has the power to stop satan, then it follows logically that god is allowing evil to be done. If I see a child sitting on the railroad tracks and do nothing to help the child, by my way of thinking that is cruel....

That is basically same as saying, God was cruel when He allowed us to know evil. I think allowing us to know good and evil is not cruel. God has told what is good and right, if people don’t want to live accordingly, it is not God’s fault.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 33 by 1213]

It's a great interpretation of scripture: It makes the scripture logically consistent.

Unless you can back-up your claims or counter-point mine... making statements like that do not contribute to the discussion.

So, can I ask 'why it is not a good interpretation of scripture?' except that it presents a view that makes one realize scripture is false or God is utterly defeated?

Destroy a soul? The bargain is he gets to keep all but 144,000. Maybe God gets choice, in barter for his only son.

[1213]

[Replying to post 33 by 1213]

It's a great interpretation of scripture: It makes the scripture logically consistent.

Unless you can back-up your claims or counter-point mine... making statements like that do not contribute to the discussion.

Reason why I think your interpretations are not good is that there is no support from the scriptures for them.

For example, the “God can't stop Satan from despoiling it.�, or “God can't repair the damage either�. You have not presented any Biblical or otherwise reasonable support for those claims.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 36 by 1213]

Sorry, you are kidding right?
Satan vies to despoil creation by getting Eve to eat the apple.
He succeeds;

Satan: 1
God: 0

God can't fix the problem, demonstration of Power:
Satan: 2
God: 0

God has to increasingly destroy more and more:
Cities:
Satan: 4
God: 0

The Nephilim and the Flood:
Satan: 5
God: 0

Sacrifice of his son to save a minuscule amount of people from Satan:
Satan: 6
God: 0

The next thing God intends to do is destroy the planet, when Satan wins again:
Satan: 7
God: 0

Game over.

God can do nothing but destroy Satan's works, and as we know destruction is a weaker act than any other. Making a vase is beneficial, breaking a vase easy.

God is the one doing all the breaking.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

When do we accept God's utter defeat?

When his last promoter gives up 'the fight'.

Elsewise, we're set here to challenge the claims of such folks that there he sits, and did him all such as that.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 36 by 1213]

Sorry, you are kidding right?
Satan

who had just been thrown out of heaven into the earth... Satan -10

vies to despoil creation by getting Eve to eat the apple.
He succeeds;

is sucked into destroying his relationship with the one person who idolizes him over YHWH by seducing her into breaking YHWH's command while sealing his fate with her as necessary to be damned: Satan -20

God can't fix the problem, demonstration of Power:

GOD fixes the problem with A&E with the skin coats prophecy of Christ while Eve now (at last!) hates him forever, meaning the next time the judgement is called, She will not stand in the way like the last time. Satan -30

God has to increasingly destroy more and more:

GOD proves HIS power to destroy the wicked. Satan -40 since he cannot do anything like that.

The Nephilim and the Flood:

GOD proves that even if the whole world is against only 8 people, He can save those 8 through it all...Satan is the loser, -50

Sacrifice of his son to save a minuscule amount of people from Satan:

Christ presents Himself as a volunteer GODly sacrifice which destroys Satan's hold on the sinful elect, saving all of them, probably 1/3 of the angels, from him; Satan -60

The next thing God intends to do is destroy the planet, when Satan wins again:

The destruction of the planet is when all of created reality not under the promise of Christ to be saved is burned, even the atoms melt [2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be dissolved in the fire, and the earth and its works will not be found....12 ...as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.] and the wicked in Satan burn and the saved will frolic: Malachi 4:2"But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. 3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act," says the LORD Almighty. Satan is done!! Halleluyah!!

Game over.

Amen!

[Willum]

[Replying to post 36 by 1213]

Sorry, you are kidding right?
Satan

who had just been thrown out of heaven into the earth... Satan -1

vies to despoil creation by getting Eve to eat the apple.
He succeeds;

is sucked into destroying his relationship with the one person who idolizes him over YHWH by seducing her into breaking YHWH's command while sealing his fate with her as necessary to be damned: Satan -1

God can't fix the problem, demonstration of Power:

GOD fixes the problem with A&E with the skin coats prophecy of Christ while Eve now (at last!) hates him forever, meaning the next time the judgement is called, She will not stand in the way like the last time. Satan -1

God has to increasingly destroy more and more:

GOD proves HIS power to destroy the wicked. Satan -1 since he cannot do anything like that.

The Nephilim and the Flood:

GOD proves that even if the whole world is against only 8 people, He can save those 8 through it all...Satan is the loser, -1

Sacrifice of his son to save a minuscule amount of people from Satan:

Christ presents Himself as a volunteer GODly sacrifice which destroys Satan's hold on the sinful elect, saving all of them, probably 1/3 of the angels, from him; Satan -1

The next thing God intends to do is destroy the planet, when Satan wins again:

The destruction of the planet is when all of created reality not under the promise of Christ to be saved is burned, even the atoms melt [2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be dissolved in the fire, and the earth and its works will not be found....12 ...as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.] and the wicked in Satan burn and the saved will frolic: Malachi 4:2"But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. 3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act," says the LORD Almighty. Satan is done!! Halleluyah!!

Game over.

Amen!

I concede one point above, and so:
Satan 6
God 1

The points don't work on a scale of 10, this simply reflects a bias on the line judge.
All the other times you awarded points, are really for very horrid things. If you wish to say God is horrid, then by all means award the points.

But then we don't need an evil Satan as an adversary,do we?
We simply have God being mans enemy.