Why are Atheists Here?

[liamconnor]

It seems to me that far more atheists frequent this site than theists.

It is also obviously apparent that non-theist members here are very, very passionate.

But why? What is your goal.


Are you trying to create atheists? But that goal does not fit the strategy, which is typically on the defensive: i.e., "Prove to me there is a God!"


So why are you here? You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange. I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you? I think Hinduism strange; still, not seeking a Hindu forum to demand evidence for their beliefs.

So, to reiterate:

what is your goal?

why specifically Christianity?

[Danmark]

Atheists of course do not believe in an immortal soul. So what is their ultimate aim? To create a better society?

Yes. I believe society benefits from understanding the truth; from being stripped of false beliefs, delusions, superstition, and claims of supernatural events. Non theists think the supernatural claims of religion are as harmful to society as hunting witches.

[Monta]

Atheists of course do not believe in an immortal soul. So what is their ultimate aim? To create a better society?

Yes. I believe society benefits from understanding the truth; from being stripped of false beliefs, delusions, superstition, and claims of supernatural events. Non theists think the supernatural claims of religion are as harmful to society as hunting witches.

I think what you are asking for is Fascist rule where you'd be dictated what to think and what to believe or not. Wellcome to the world of zombies.

[Zzyzx]

.

Atheists of course do not believe in an immortal soul. So what is their ultimate aim? To create a better society?

Yes. I believe society benefits from understanding the truth; from being stripped of false beliefs, delusions, superstition, and claims of supernatural events. Non theists think the supernatural claims of religion are as harmful to society as hunting witches.

I think what you are asking for is Fascist rule where you'd be dictated what to think and what to believe or not. Wellcome to the world of zombies.

How, exactly, does understanding truth equal dictation?

Why oppose education, search for truth and understanding? Would that be because knowledge opposes religion?

[Danmark]

Atheists of course do not believe in an immortal soul. So what is their ultimate aim? To create a better society?

Yes. I believe society benefits from understanding the truth; from being stripped of false beliefs, delusions, superstition, and claims of supernatural events. Non theists think the supernatural claims of religion are as harmful to society as hunting witches.

I think what you are asking for is Fascist rule where you'd be dictated what to think and what to believe or not. Wellcome to the world of zombies.

YOUR interpretation of what I wrote is not only wrong it is the exact opposite of what I wrote. It not only is wrong, but it is a perfect description of what the church actually did. The church actually tried to tell everyone what to believe, on pain of excommunication, banishment, torture, and death. Some fundamentalist Christians are still trying to do this thru political power. In some African Muslim countries they still practice conformity to religious law by death threats.
It is for these very reasons the first people who challenged the church on this were called free thinkers; they included atheists. Atheists are simply trying to teach truth and expose religious dogma for what it is, a set of falsehoods.

I think I understand why you "welcome" me to "the world of zombies." The WELCOME mat is placed at the front door of the home of he who welcomes.

[Danmark]

Part of the problem with the OP is its inherent assumption that "atheists" are here because atheism is their central belief. For me at least, it is not. That is one of the reasons I prefer the term "non theist." My issue with "atheist" is that it signals a reaction against something they actually believe does not even exist. Non theism is just one of the aspects of "Freethinking."

Freethought (or "free thought") is a philosophical viewpoint which holds that positions regarding truth should be formed on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism, rather than authority, tradition, revelation, or other dogma. In particular, freethought is strongly tied with rejection of traditional religious belief. The cognitive application of freethought is known as "freethinking", and practitioners of freethought are known as "freethinkers". The term first came into use in the 17th century in order to indicate people who inquired into the basis of traditional religious beliefs.
....
Freethinkers hold that knowledge should be grounded in facts, scientific inquiry, and logic. The skeptical application of science implies freedom from the intellectually limiting effects of confirmation bias, cognitive bias, conventional wisdom, popular culture, prejudice, or sectarianism.
Atheist author Adam Lee defines freethought as thinking which is independent of revelation, tradition, established belief, and authority, and considers it as a "broader umbrella" than atheism "that embraces a rainbow of unorthodoxy, religious dissent, skepticism, and unconventional thinking."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought

I suggest that atheism is not a goal in itself, but rather one aspect of a broader philosophy that sees religious claims as authoritarianism, an appeal to freedom from the dictates of clerics and tradition. Instead, we believe knowledge comes from scientific inquiry, logic, and a healthy skepticism.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 3 by Tired of the Nonsense]

The goal for non believers is to spread Christian claims out into the open and expose them critically for all to see.

Yes, but why? What is the ultimate goal? Christians are supposedly (at least, that is what they say) are about "saving souls". Atheists of course do not believe in an immortal soul. So what is their ultimate aim? To create a better society?

The whole idea of Christians "saving souls" has no merit in any case.

If the actions of any Christian could be the deciding factor in whether or not a particular soul is "saved" then this God's system of "justice" is grossly corrupt.

A God who has a "Perfect System of Justice" in place shouldn't need any Christians to be involved in "saving souls".

In short, if a Christian is the effective factor in whether or not someone is "damned or saved", then this would mean that the Christian had "saved a soul" who this God would have otherwise damned had the Christian not been involved.

How can Christians not see the problem with this?

This religion shoots itself in its own feet.

If this God can be trusted to "save" the righteous, then the righteous should be saved with no need for any Christians to be involved in their lives at all.

Surely a Christian can't change someone's ultimate character?

A person is either worthy of being "saved" or they aren't. And an omniscient God should know this without any help from any evangelical Christians.

So the idea that Christians are somehow needed (or could even be involved) in the process of "saving souls" is utterly absurd.

This religion cannot possibly be true.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 23 by DanieltheDragon]

"I am sure that the apologists would not want us to criticize a fragile belief system that relies specifically on emotional appeal and threat of punishment. I mean heck it might not hold together if people talk about their skepticism."

Don't know where did you get these ideas.
People die for their faith, hardly fragile.
Emotional appeal when you are young perhaps but as an adult with your rational fully developed, you think intelligently and believe certain things because you are convinced that they are true.
If threats of punishment really worked our prisons would be empty.
Skepticism? That is where we all start.

[OnceConvinced]

Why am I here? Here are my list of reasons:

Note, that although these are very valid reasons for me, my time spent here is actually minimal. The rest of the time I rarely even think about Christianity and religion. I live my life and have other priorities.

1) I spent over 30 years of my life diligently believing and serving the God of the bible. Then one day I discovered, to my horror, that my God wasn’t real. That I had spent over 30 years of my life, wasting a lot of time with religious nonsense (as well as non-religious nonsense). I do not want others to fall into that same trap. We only have 70-90 years of life! Not an eternity!

2) Due to living a Christian life I missed out on so many experiences due to the fact I believed certain things were wrong and that I should be putting Christ first in everything. Life is short. We do not have a whole eternity. This life is not just a test. We should not be beating ourselves up over our human nature. I do not want to see people missing out on making the most of their lives because of their Christian beliefs.

3) I was indoctrinated into Christianity from birth. Given no other options of what to believe. Taught the bible as if it were fact. I was told that evolution was a lie of the devil and Atheists were evil. But evolution is not a lie and Atheists are not evil just because they don’t believe in God. Indoctrination has to be stopped and as with me, the only way to be broken out of that indoctrination is to have ones faulty beliefs exposed.

4) Many Christians exaggerate and even lie about what the bible says, claims made about Jesus, their own lives, miracles, the things that Jesus has supposedly done in their lives. These things need to be exposed. People need to speak up otherwise others will be suckered into it. One thing that really irritates me on this site is when Christians claim certain things which I know are just not true. eg I was never a true Christian, Seek and ye shall find. I have to stand up and I have to say these things are not true.

5) Threats and persecution
Christians like to think they are the ones being persecuted, but that is hardly the case in this modern world. In fact it’s the opposite. Christians persecute atheists, homosexuals, people of other religions and they do it believing they’re righteous. They also mix that persecution with threats of hell and damnation and in some cases even take justice into their own hands. We need to speak up against this sort of bullying. It needs to stop and Christians need to start accepting people for who they are and quit trying to judge them and persecute them

6) Christianity being pushed on us. Not only indoctrination, but people wanting our laws to be biblical based. Wanting to insist on things like bible in schools. They are trying to push their fantasies onto us as reality. We must stand up against this stuff.

7) For the enjoyment of it. After over 30 years of bible studies I know a lot about the topic and I love to discuss it. I love to debate the topic.

8) Lack of acceptance of others
Christians tend to believe that we are all born dirty sinners and that we are in effect worthless and unworthy and they see themselves and others the same way. We are all in desperate need of a saviour because we are so filthy and evil. This is not a healthy way to live and it’s certainly not a healthy way to treat others. People are driven to despair because they are made to feel so dirty and sinful. People have even been driven to suicide due to not being accepted by their Christian families and friends because they are deemed to be filthy or perverse. They can’t be themselves. We need to start valuing one another more and accepting each other for who we are, even if we don’t necessarily understand each other.

9. Expecting God to rescue us
Many Christians have no interest in the wellbeing of this planet because they believe that they are in the end times and that Jesus will return and rescue them. Thus they do not appreciate that we need to spend money and effort on making this world a better place and to perhaps even explore other worlds. They do not care about diseases that could wipe us out because they think God has the whole world in his hands. They don’t care about the hole in the O Zone layer. They do not see this planet as something that needs to sustain life for thousands of years from now. They think it’s all going to end soon. This is dangerous thinking and we cannot allow people to think this way. We have to do what we can now to make this world a better place, not hope for some God to rescue us.

10. Desiring the end of the world
Many Christians so want the world to end so that they can be raptured up and taken to Heaven to be with Jesus. They actually look forward to these end time events and expect them to happen in their life time. Imagine the danger of having Christians with nuclear weapons, ready to put their finger on the button because they believe God wants to trigger the apocalypse. It’s a scary thought. We need to educate people and make them realize that there is no God wanting any of this stuff. There will be no rapture and Jesus will not be returning.

[OnceConvinced]

Are you trying to create atheists?

No, I am just trying expose religious nonsense and lies. If people want to believe in a god of some kind, that's fine. When I lost my faith I went from Deist and to Agnostic before I came to be an atheist. People are welcome to label whatever suits them best and whatever fits with their beliefs.

But that goal does not fit the strategy, which is typically on the defensive: i.e., "Prove to me there is a God!"

I don't normally ask believers to prove to me there is a god, because I don't believe they can. The only one I expect to prove to me there is a god is any god who wants me to believe in them.

You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous.

I wanted this when I first came to this site, but I have come to realise this is most likely not going to happen, because so far they have convinced me I was right to see much of it as ridiculous. My intention now is to expose the ridiculous things for all to see. They should be exposed.

This is very strange. I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you?

This is as much as an Islamic site as it is a Christian one. Note that it's about discussing religion. Anyone from any religion is welcome here to debate. Why would I go to a site that narrows it down to just one religion and gives that religion preference?

I am at this site because it creates a level playing field for everyone. Sites specific to any one religion tend to shut down dissenters or people with heretical ideas. This site does not. Why would I want to go to a site that is going to shut me down as soon as I expose flaws in their belief system?

I am also not part of any solely Islamic site because I know virtually nothing about Islam. I was brought up in a Christian home. Christianity is what I was taught and what I know. It is the subject I am knowledgeable about. It is a religion that I can talk about and critique with authority as I have been part of it for most of my life.

I think Hinduism strange; still, not seeking a Hindu forum to demand evidence for their beliefs.

I know even less about Hinduism than I do Islam. Why would I want to be part of a Hindu debate site when I can't possibly give any meaningful debate to it? Much like Islam. I know the bible. I've read it and studied it. I have not read and studied the koran or any other religious books. I would be useless in debate on those sites. I would have nothing to offer anyone.

My life is full of Christians pushing their ideas and values onto me. I have no Muslims or Hindus doing that.

[Danmark]

Why am I here? Here are my list of reasons:


1) I spent over 30 years of my life diligently believing and serving the God of the bible. Then one day I discovered, to my horror, that my God wasn’t real. ....
2) Due to living a Christian life I missed out on so many experiences due to the fact I believed certain things were wrong and that I should be putting Christ first in everything. Life is short. We do not have a whole eternity....
3) I was indoctrinated into Christianity from birth. Given no other options of what to believe. Taught the bible as if it were fact....
4) Many Christians exaggerate and even lie about what the bible says....
5) Threats and persecution
Christians like to think they are the ones being persecuted, but that is hardly the case in this modern world. In fact it’s the opposite. Christians persecute atheists, homosexuals, people of other religions and they do it believing they’re righteous. They also mix that persecution with threats of hell and damnation....
6) Christianity being pushed on us. Not only indoctrination, but people wanting our laws to be biblical based. . . trying to push their fantasies onto us as reality.
7) For the enjoyment of it. After over 30 years of bible studies I know a lot about the topic and I love to discuss it. I love to debate the topic.
8), 9), 10)

I agree with all of these reasons and had the same experiences at the same ages.

The issue of an emotional plea vs. intellectual/academic appeals to convert to Christianity has been discussed here.
Like OnceC... I converted to Christianity as a precocious 7 year old and was an evangelical Christian for 25-30 years. During that time I was in the congregation for numerous altar calls, which were most intense and frequent in my teen years. ALL such conversation appeals were appeals to emotion. NONE of it was based on academic argument. The only authority used to support the emotional appeals was the Bible and evangelists citing their experiences. I still even remember the exact wording of some of these appears, "Can't you feel Jesus tugging at your heartstrings?" This would follow a story about a WWII fighter pilot somehow surviving 800 holes shot in his fighter-bomber, yet he survived. BTW, this particular evangelist was one my Dad's best friends and a man I continued to revere and respect, and love until his recent death in his 90's. I mention this because the Christian message was presented to me by people I loved and trusted and respect. My acceptance of Christianity was based on emotion, obligation, and pressure to do what my parents and others wanted. My rejection of fundamentalist Christianity was based on an academic approach: scholarship, facts, logic... and just plain common sense.

Even in Jr. High School when I asked questions about the Bible or theology, I was frequently given unsatisfactory responses like,

You'd be a good theology student... Trust and obey... It's a mystery....