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For debate:JehovahsWitness wrote: From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.
That is demonstrably incorrect. It's almost universally recognized that biblical eschatology requires the existence of a Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Dan. 9:27, Matt. 24:15, Rev. 11:1). The second temple was destroyed in 70CE during the first Jewish-Roman war; there was a brief resurgence of hope for a third temple during the bar Kokhba revolt/third Jewish-Roman war of 132-136CE, but after that time the prospects for the existence of a Jewish temple remained essentially zero for over eighteen centuries: Jews remained a dispersed and intermittently persecuted minority in Muslim and even moreso Christian regions, with no administrative control over Israel or Jerusalem.Willum wrote: But will everyone be dead in some Holy Apocalypse? No. The signs are no different now than they are at any other time in history.
We also are entering a series of judgments, which I do believe it is from God.Diagoras wrote: Very different than 'last days' in the biblical 'Day of Judgement' sense.
With the recent policies of the Federal Reserve and the Federal Government, free market capitalism is now dead. We are now in a period where the government is in absolute control and the masses are dependent on handouts from the government.Can you point to specific actions and policies that demonstrate a 'rapid descent into socialism'?
https://www.thevermilion.com/opinion/am ... f5a00.htmlAs much as the president or his party would like to be contrary, America is a socialist country. Many programs that millions of people rely on, like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP and government housing, are all socialist programs; they redistribute wealth to take care of those who need it.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... socialism/The government, seeking to distribute necessary products in a fair and equitable manner, “imposed price controls,� “nationalized the most important private industries,� took over the free market and hampered the individual’s ability to create and produce.
The UK has started to "temporarily" finance government spending through direct injection of unlimited money from the Bank of England.Any examples to share?Things around the world are not much better. All countries seem to be racing towards the bottom of devaluing their currency and printing money with total abandon.
https://www.ft.com/content/664c575b-0f5 ... d30ef213cbThe UK has become the first country to embrace the monetary financing of government to fund the immediate cost of fighting coronavirus, with the Bank of England agreeing to a Treasury demand to directly finance the state’s spending needs on a temporary basis.Â
This will rise to an effectively unlimited amount, allowing ministers to spend more in the short term without having to tap the gilts market.
The scale is likely to be large. The government has already tripled the amount of debt it wanted to raise in financial markets in April from £15bn announced in the March 11 Budget to £45bn by the start of this month.Â
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/glossary ... _test=2_15In total, Fed watchers have referred to the central bank’s measures as “bazookas,� even “going nuclear.�
The Fed is notably getting creative with its tools, dispelling any concern that the central bank was beholden to its 2008 playbook. For the first time, the Fed is tackling financing pressures in the municipal debt market (through the MMLF, CPFF, and Municipal Liquidity Facility) and the corporate debt market (through the PMCCF, SMCCF, CPFF).
In Hungary, PM Viktor Orban has seized authoritative power over the state.That's needlessly emotive language for what in many cases is enacting emergency measures to combat a threat to the nation's health.Governments are seizing power and bringing everyone into submission.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... -advocatesThe nationalist government in Hungary passed a law Monday granting sweeping emergency powers that Prime Minister Viktor Orban says are necessary to fight the coronavirus pandemic.
Those powers include sidelining parliament and giving Orban the power to rule by decree indefinitely.
It's pretty much a given that when governments say something is temporary, it means forever. Or at least until the last days.You haven't given any example of a country where such measures aren't temporary.
Note, I said on the path to starvation.Over half a million cases of Covid-19 reported in the US and around 23,600 deaths as at today. How many confirmed cases of 'starvation due to being locked inside' have there been, worldwide?Meanwhile, millions, if not billions, are on the path of starving to death while being locked down in their homes.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/worl ... kdown.htmlBut social distancing means hunger for many in India, with a work force heavily dependent on manual labor. It would be an unheard-of luxury for the ragpicker or street vendor who lives day to day.
It took a long time for the US to finally recommend people to wear masks. Delaying this has caused the virus to needlessly spread.Your worldview may be severely distorted due to the leadership qualities of the US being... rather an outlier. Many of us in other parts of the world consider that our governments, while by no means perfect, have done a remarkably good job of 'flattening the curve' and preventing the situation spiralling out of control.Governments keep lying to the people and really have no idea how to handle all the crises that are happening.
Neilly Buckalew is a traveling doctor who fills in at hospitals when there's need. So in the midst of this pandemic, she feels particularly vulnerable to contracting the coronavirus — not just in hospitals but in hotels and on her travels.
That first day at work, Buckalew said, she was told to take off her mask.
When she asked hospital administrators why, the reasons kept changing. First, Buckalew said she was told it was against hospital policy for health care workers to bring their own gear. Then, she said, administrators told her if she wore her own N95 mask, others would want to wear the masks as well and the hospital didn't have enough. Finally, Buckalew said, it was that CDC guidelines don't require the mask at all times.
The world has been getting "better" by borrowing from the future. Yes, we can all live the good life now when we max out on our credit cards, but eventually someone will have to pay.In all seriousness, the world's been getting better and better for years now.
I agree that living on make believe money is unsustainable, that authoritarian government is disastrous, that dependency on government is even worse. Most current forms of government and economy have failed. Greed rules and unequal distribution of wealth is a greater pandemic than the virus. Government reaction to a crisis has been abominable.otseng wrote: The world has been getting "better" by borrowing from the future. Yes, we can all live the good life now when we max out on our credit cards, but eventually someone will have to pay.
There has been two major events happening at the same time - an economic collapse and covid-19. Major cracks in the economy actually started before the coronavirus epidemic started. Even without coronavirus, the financial system was spiraling down as evidenced by Fed intervention in the repo market. Now, with coronavirus, the velocity of descent has gone into warp speed. Just in the past month, all the jobs created since 2008 has been wiped out. Now, could it be by chance the economic collapse and the coronavirus pandemic occurred about the same time? Each by themselves would be a catastrophic event that rivals any other event in history. It could either be the most unlucky timing in the history of the world ... or it was engineered. Conspiracy theorists say coronavirus is a plandemic. I don't give humans that much credit to be able to pull off a single global conspiracy, much less two of them. So, I believe it must be engineered by heavenly forces. The theory can be further supported if we continue to see major cataclysmic events that are unrelated to economics and disease starting to occur in the near future.Zzyzx wrote: How is the present situation different except in degree (and awareness through communication) and how is it an indication of 'end times' (a religious concept)?
No need to apologize. My own reference to credit cards was also symbolic.Thomas Mc Donald wrote: It is probably the same point, in that we both see a pattern of human absolute dependence on illusionary expectations. If I misrepresent your opinion by expressing my own here, I apologize.
Next too look for is when people are saying, “There is peace! There is peace!� When there is no peace." Jeremiah 8:11otseng wrote:Likewise, scoffers will mock it is not the end.Willum wrote: There are always floods, earthquakes, plagues and religio-lunies claiming this is the end.
2Pe 3:3-4 ESV - knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."
I believe we are in the last days in several aspects, and not all of them are religious.
We are in the last days of the United States as a great nation. We are rapidly descending into socialism and into a police state. The massive debt incurred by the government, corporations, and individuals will bankrupt us. Society will soon start to collapse as bread lines get longer, grocery shelves get emptier, and more file for unemployment. Massive monetary policy will only lead to hyperinflation and kill the dollar as the reserve currency.
Things around the world are not much better. All countries seem to be racing towards the bottom of devaluing their currency and printing money with total abandon. Governments are seizing power and bringing everyone into submission. Meanwhile, millions, if not billions, are on the path of starving to death while being locked down in their homes.
Governments keep lying to the people and really have no idea how to handle all the crises that are happening. They promise solutions and when they do try to help, it only makes things worse. Pretty soon, the public will realize they are being duped by their leaders.
For years I've believed the end is near, but not publicly willing to make the claim. Now I'm convinced it's here.
All the talk about a V-shaped recovery or we'll go back to normal after COVID-19 is over or the Fed has this in control are all wishful thinking. We are entering a global super depression that history books will be talking about for thousands of years from now (if humanity still exists).
otseng wrote:There has been two major events happening at the same time - an economic collapse and covid-19. Major cracks in the economy actually started before the coronavirus epidemic started. Even without coronavirus, the financial system was spiraling down as evidenced by Fed intervention in the repo market. Now, with coronavirus, the velocity of descent has gone into warp speed. Just in the past month, all the jobs created since 2008 has been wiped out. Now, could it be by chance the economic collapse and the coronavirus pandemic occurred about the same time? Each by themselves would be a catastrophic event that rivals any other event in history.Zzyzx wrote: How is the present situation different except in degree (and awareness through communication) and how is it an indication of 'end times' (a religious concept)?
There is evidence of major economic problems predating the plagueThe Black Death of the 14th century is well known. When historians discuss "the plague" they are usually referring to this epidemic of bubonic plague caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis. In his book, "The Black Death, 1346-1353: The Complete History" (Boydell Press, 2018), Ole Jørgen Benedictow estimates that 50-60% of the population of Europe died during the Black Death, an even higher proportion than the often-cited "one-third" of Europeans lost to the disease.Â
Less well known is that the plague continued to strike Europe, the Middle East and beyond for the next four centuries, returning every 10 to 20 years.Â
https://www.livescience.com/what-was-th ... death.html
No conspiracy OR divine influence requiredThe particular concerns of the twentieth century unsurprisingly induced some scholars to view the medieval economy through a Malthusian lens. In this reconstruction of the Middle Ages, population growth pressed against the society’s ability to feed itself by the mid—thirteenth century. Rising impoverishment and contracting holdings compelled the peasant to cultivate inferior, low—fertility land and to convert pasture to arable production and thereby inevitably reduce numbers of livestock and make manure for fertilizer scarcer. Boosting gross productivity in the immediate term yet driving yields of grain downward in the longer term exacerbated the imbalance between population and food supply; redressing the imbalance became inevitable. This idea’s adherents see signs of demographic correction from the mid—thirteenth century onward, possibly arising in part from marriage practices that reduced fertility. A more potent correction came with subsistence crises. Miserable weather in 1315 destroyed crops and the ensuing Great Famine (1315—22) reduced northern Europe’s population by perhaps ten to fifteen percent. Poor harvests, moreover, bedeviled England and Italy to the eve of the Black Death.
These factors — climate, imperfect institutions, monetary imbalances, overpopulation — diminish the Black Death’s role as a transformative socioeconomic event. In other words, socioeconomic changes already driven by other causes would have occurred anyway, merely more slowly, had the plague never struck Europe. This conviction fosters receptiveness to lower estimates of the Black Death’s deadliness. Recent scrutiny of the Malthusian analysis, especially studies of agriculture in source—rich eastern England, has, however, rehabilitated the Black Death as an agent of socioeconomic change. Growing awareness of the use of “progressive� agricultural techniques and of alternative, non—grain economies less susceptible to a Malthusian population—versus—resources dynamic has undercut the notion of an absolutely overpopulated Europe and has encouraged acceptance of higher rates of mortality from the plague (Campbell, 1983; Bailey, 1989). https://eh.net/encyclopedia/the-economi ... ack-death/
