Why is faith a virtue ?

[McCulloch]

Why is faith a virtue?

Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

According to the Christians, God created humans. According to science, humans have really big brains, relative to the expected brain size based on other species and body size. With these really big brains, we can assess information, evaluate options, pose difficult questions and collaborate on answers thereby combining the power of our brains.

But according to some Christians, on this site and elsewhere, God does not want humans to use our brains with regard to him. He wants humans to choose to believe in him without sufficient evidence to rationally conclude that he exists. In science, this kind of faith, acceptance of assertions as fact without supporting evidence, is not considered a virtue. Yet, in the area of religion it is good to have faith (so long as your faith is the correct faith).

Why ?

[Cathar1950]

This is the true question. Can everyone be equal in their ability to have faith. Should the non belivers be sent to hell , because they just cant believe such an amazing story. Faith many times is the ability to believe things that cant possible be true. It appears to me that many people have selected faith. for instance these people surely wouldnt sit at home dying of a heart attack, and not call for an ambulance. I know they have in the past. But really. Faith is normally the belief in something, thats clearly not true. Because anything that is true can survive the checks and balances. Unfortunately, some have the ability to completely overlook common sense, if it disagrees with their faith. This notion has definately slowed down the progress of mankind.

I just had a funny thought.
Maybe the virtue of faith is that it slows us down and makes us stupid so we don't do everything that we set out minds to or imagine. Otherwise we might destroy ourselves or make the gods angry.

[Confused]

Why is faith a virtue?

Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

According to the Christians, God created humans. According to science, humans have really big brains, relative to the expected brain size based on other species and body size. With these really big brains, we can assess information, evaluate options, pose difficult questions and collaborate on answers thereby combining the power of our brains.

But according to some Christians, on this site and elsewhere, God does not want humans to use our brains with regard to him. He wants humans to choose to believe in him without sufficient evidence to rationally conclude that he exists. In science, this kind of faith, acceptance of assertions as fact without supporting evidence, is not considered a virtue. Yet, in the area of religion it is good to have faith (so long as your faith is the correct faith).

Why ?

I think in general faith is one of the most highest forms of praise we can bestow on anyone or anything. It is the giving of complete trust in what we are supporting. In science, while faith isn't considered a virtue, it is still an asset. Without faith in some hypothesis, one has no reason to test it. But in science it is a very guarded faith. It is faith with stipulations. In religion, it is faith without question. The problem with the concept of faith in religion is that it is asking for one to place all their trust, unquestionably, in a concept without the ability to apply any of our given senses to validate that faith. We can neither see, taste, touch, feel (tactile), or hear what we are asked to give unquestionable trust in. That is one thing I will always envy Christians of. If I never find the path to God, I will never be able to feel that unquestionable trust. They have that inner peace that allows them to place it all in one basket. We can't understand it, because we can't rationalize it.

[QED]

That is one thing I will always envy Christians of. If I never find the path to God, I will never be able to feel that unquestionable trust. They have that inner peace that allows them to place it all in one basket. We can't understand it, because we can't rationalize it.

If you look at all the arguments I think you'll find that with Christianity and other religions it is ultimately faith alone that grounds these self-consistent paradigms to the everyday realities of the world. It is remarkable how we can transform our world with the suspension of just one or two realities (a trick that authors of fiction stories are well aware of). The worlds thus created can be very large and utterly compelling but somewhere there remains a suspension -- a gap that relies on faith to plug it.

Unfortunately this is all too familiar to scientists who routinely generate similar paradigms yet there is little honor in staying faithful to a discredited worldview once the plug has been pulled out.

[Confused]

That is one thing I will always envy Christians of. If I never find the path to God, I will never be able to feel that unquestionable trust. They have that inner peace that allows them to place it all in one basket. We can't understand it, because we can't rationalize it.

If you look at all the arguments I think you'll find that with Christianity and other religions it is ultimately faith alone that grounds these self-consistent paradigms to the everyday realities of the world. It is remarkable how we can transform our world with the suspension of just one or two realities (a trick that authors of fiction stories are well aware of). The worlds thus created can be very large and utterly compelling but somewhere there remains a suspension -- a gap that relies on faith to plug it.

Unfortunately this is all too familiar to scientists who routinely generate similar paradigms yet there is little honor in staying faithful to a discredited worldview once the plug has been pulled out.

Knowing this and understanding this doesn't make me envy them any less. If I could put all my faith in one basket and enjoy the peace(even if it is an illusion), well, maybe life wouldn't be easier, but maybe it would.

[The Duke of Vandals]

Why should I believe your follies? All you've done is advance a dozen or so specious, personal opinions based on squat. Where's the beef?

Ah, I see. I explain why faith has to be a virtue for Christianity to work and I suddenly have a personal agenda against Christians. Sorry, hoss, but that's not how it works. Debate or not, but don't try to play the victim card.

[Easyrider]

Why should I believe your follies? All you've done is advance a dozen or so specious, personal opinions based on squat. Where's the beef?

Ah, I see. I explain why faith has to be a virtue for Christianity to work and I suddenly have a personal agenda against Christians. Sorry, hoss, but that's not how it works. Debate or not, but don't try to play the victim card.

Not the victim, but a Conqueror! As the Word of God states, ""No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us" (Rom. 8:37).

Now, regarding your assertion that "faith" is somehow void of reason:

C.S. Lewis, who among other accomplishments was a classical language scholar states regarding faith that it is not "the intention to believe what you want to believe in the face of evidence to the contrary" or "the power of believing what we know to be untrue."

Charles Hodge tells us "...faith involves assent, and assent is conviction produced by evidence, it follows that faith without evidence is either irrational or impossible.
Hodge also comments: God requires nothing irrational of his creatures. He does not require faith without evidence. Christianity is equally opposed to superstition and Rationalism. The one is faith without appropriate evidence, the other refuses to believe what it does not understand, inspite of evidence which should command belief." (apologeticsinfo...)

[Lainey]

"The one is faith without appropriate evidence, the other refuses to believe what it does not understand, inspite of evidence which should command belief."

But the evidence doesn't command belief! That's the problem! To those of us who don't believe, Christianity is faith without appropriate evidence, in other words, superstition, as well.

[Cathar1950]

"The one is faith without appropriate evidence, the other refuses to believe what it does not understand, inspite of evidence which should command belief."

But the evidence doesn't command belief! That's the problem! To those of us who don't believe, Christianity is faith without appropriate evidence, in other words, superstition, as well.

Well-said Lainey. It is only evidence for the believer. No one says they never use reason.
You do imply an interesting question; How is it different from any superstition?

Easyrider

C.S. Lewis, who among other accomplishments was a classical language scholar states regarding faith that it is not "the intention to believe what you want to believe in the face of evidence to the contrary" or "the power of believing what we know to be untrue."

So what does his other accomplishments (beside a false dilemma) prove he was a relevant reference?
Easyrider

Hodge also comments: God requires nothing irrational of his creatures.

I am not saying God requires his creatures to be irrational but that does not make them rational. It seems your desire for evidence makes you see it everywhere.
If you feed chickens at random intervals they start displaying superstitious behavior. Where you attach some behavior to some unrelated event or even one that correlates. Lift a leg, flap a wing, peck and so on, their evidence is that food comes out at random intervals that they associate with repeated behaviors. For the chicken it seems reasonable and evident.

I was reading this passage looking for something I read about faith and logic.
I looked up the words in the sentence in Greek;

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen

What I noticed was the emphases on the lack of evidence, reason or reason and also the lack of substance. We should talk about the meaning of each word and look at what they really are saying. I can only imagine that a believer or stoned person could make sense out of it. Yet I have often seen it claimed to be a deep idea. But look and tell me what is rational, reasonable or even understood?
There is no substance.

http://bible.cc/hebrews/11-1.htm

4102. pistis (pis'-tis)

from peitho; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself

assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

2076. esti (es-tee')

third person singular present indicative of eimi; he (she or it) is; also (with neuter plural) they are

are, be(-long), call, X can(-not), come, consisteth, X dure for a while, + follow, X have, (that) is (to say), make, meaneth, X must needs, + profit, + remaineth, + wrestle.

see GREEK eimi

1679. elpizo (el-pid'-zo)

from elpis; to expect or confide

(have, thing) hope(-d) (for), trust.

see GREEK elpis

5287. hupostasis (hoop-os'-tas-is)

from a compound of hupo and histemi; a setting under (support), i.e. (figuratively) concretely, essence, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively)

confidence, confident, person, substance.

see GREEK hupo
see GREEK histemi

4229. pragma (prag'-mah)

from prasso; a deed; by implication, an affair; by extension, an object (material)

business, matter, thing, work.
from elegcho; proof, conviction

evidence, reproof.
see GREEK elegcho

991. blepo (blep'-o)

a primary verb; to look at (literally or figuratively)

behold, beware, lie, look (on, to), perceive, regard, see, sight, take heed. Compare

Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen. (WEB)
Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen. (ASV)
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the sign that the things not seen are true. (BBE)
Now faith is the substantiating of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (DBY)
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (KJV)
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (WBS)
Hebrews 11:1 WEY: Now faith is a well-grounded assurance of that for which we hope, and a conviction of the reality of things which we do not see.

[IPOINTITOUT]

So actually the bible expects everyone to believe anything, even though you know its not true. It also expects us to not ask any questions. IF IT SOUNDS UNBELIEVABLE, THEN WITHOUT EVIDENCE ITS MOST LIKELY A HOAX. IN THIS CASE ONLY FOOLISH PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE. WANNA BUY A CAR, THAT RUNS GREAT, BUT HAS NO ENGINE

[Cathar1950]

What it is saying is;
My assurance is my belief or fidelity and is the substance
Of my hopes or desires as well as the proof and my works, deeds or life.

It is subjective and not rational.
Except for the belief, what ever that might mean it is empty.
It’s the belief that is the means and the end.
It makes you wonder why Christians try so had to prove what isn’t to be proved.