Why Christianity Must Change or Die

[kayky]

This is the title of one of John Shelby Spong's most well-known books. Spong refers to himself as "a believer in exile" because he can no longer relate to "orthodox" Christianity. Many thinking Christians identify with this position completely.

Consider the following passage from this book:

Creedal language comes out of another time. It reflects assumptions that this generation can no longer make. It thus employs a language that is not native to us. If we could just cease being believers, these problems would disappear. But some of us cannot cease believing. God is too real for us. We also cannot resign from our modern world or close our minds to its insights. We cannot pretend that we live in the first century. We cannot park our brains at the door of our places of worship in order to accept as real the words that were used to interpret God in years past but can no longer today illumine our understanding of God.

Is it time for forward-thinking denominations to rewrite the Nicene Creed in order to reflect a modern understanding of Christianity?

[kayky]

[quote="McCulloch"] After all, did we not teach people to respect our common humanity?

Jesus was a humanist.

[kayky]

You've been ranting about religious fundamentalism. I'm showing you there's a different kind of fundamentalism (liberal fundamentalism) that's the real culprit.

I don't even know what you mean by "liberal fundamentalism" or how it relates to Christianity. Fundamentalism has degraded Christianity into a system of mindless dogma.

If people followed the teachings of Christ, there would be no more murder, no more wars, and no more violence against others. And that's a fact. After all, did he not teach people to love their neighbors as themselves?

I am not suggesting we do away with the teachings of Jesus.

And don't try to tell me religion (specifically Christianity) is at the center of a lot of violence and hatred. Rather, it's the violation of Christian principles that is the cause of that.

You need to reread the OP. I would like to suggest again that you look at my response to your first post on this thread, which actually did relate to the OP.

[kayky]

Sinless humanists? <chuckle>I like our chances better. At least we will get to heaven and be raised "incorruptable." You won't.

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

[JoeyKnothead]

Sinless humanists? <chuckle>I like our chances better. At least we will get to heaven and be raised "incorruptable." You won't.

I challenge Easyrider (even though he prefers to ignore challenges to his claims) to offer one shred of empirical evidence this actually happens.

[McCulloch]

Jesus was a humanist.

I like your interpretation of Christianity. Alas it is far too rare.

[East of Eden]

This is the title of one of John Shelby Spong's most well-known books. Spong refers to himself as "a believer in exile" because he can no longer relate to "orthodox" Christianity. Many thinking Christians identify with this position completely.

Consider the following passage from this book:

Creedal language comes out of another time. It reflects assumptions that this generation can no longer make. It thus employs a language that is not native to us. If we could just cease being believers, these problems would disappear. But some of us cannot cease believing. God is too real for us. We also cannot resign from our modern world or close our minds to its insights. We cannot pretend that we live in the first century. We cannot park our brains at the door of our places of worship in order to accept as real the words that were used to interpret God in years past but can no longer today illumine our understanding of God.

Is it time for forward-thinking denominations to rewrite the Nicene Creed in order to reflect a modern understanding of Christianity?

Considering that Spong's diocese dramatically shrunk during his tenure, he's the last person to advise on how to promote Christianity. In contrast, Bible-believing, orthodox parts of the Anglican Communion are growing tremendously. Nigeria, for example, has more Anglicans in church on Sundays than the US, UK, and Canada combined.

[JoeyKnothead]

I would contend the many and various sects and offshoots of Christianity indicate it is in a constant state of "change" in an unspoken (though maybe not nefarious) effort to remain relevant.

I think of the old laws of punishing folks for not going to church on Sunday, or the wearing of two different fibers, or many others and see this change occurring.

I notice where societies have changed their particular mores, the church often follows. I hate to dredge up a heinous example, but there were churches here in the Southern US that once used the Bible to promote slavery. As the culture changed, so too did the teachings in this regard.

If polls can be trusted, I've seen several that indicate younger folks are becoming less impressed with the more hardline forms of religion, and even within some religious sects we can see preachers going against their own orders. Here I think of the Lutherans and their internal disagreements over homosexuality.

Religion, perhaps more than any other ideology is a reflection of its people, their concerns over the issues, and place in time.

Religion is now, and will forever be in a constant state of flux as new information, ways of thinking, and new interpretations of religious texts (often a response to societal mores changing) comes into being.

[bernee51]

This is the title of one of John Shelby Spong's most well-known books. Spong refers to himself as "a believer in exile" because he can no longer relate to "orthodox" Christianity. Many thinking Christians identify with this position completely.

Consider the following passage from this book:

Creedal language comes out of another time. It reflects assumptions that this generation can no longer make. It thus employs a language that is not native to us. If we could just cease being believers, these problems would disappear. But some of us cannot cease believing. God is too real for us. We also cannot resign from our modern world or close our minds to its insights. We cannot pretend that we live in the first century. We cannot park our brains at the door of our places of worship in order to accept as real the words that were used to interpret God in years past but can no longer today illumine our understanding of God.

Is it time for forward-thinking denominations to rewrite the Nicene Creed in order to reflect a modern understanding of Christianity?

Considering that Spong's diocese dramatically shrunk during his tenure, he's the last person to advise on how to promote Christianity. In contrast, Bible-believing, orthodox parts of the Anglican Communion are growing tremendously. Nigeria, for example, has more Anglicans in church on Sundays than the US, UK, and Canada combined.

And where christianity goes - mindless intolerance and superstitious or criminal manipulation soon follows...

I'm sure you have heard of the witch children of Nigeria.

[kayky]

And where christianity goes - mindless intolerance and superstitious or criminal manipulation soon follows...

and hospitals and schools and feeding programs and orphanages and...

I'm sure you have heard of the witch children of Nigeria.

Yes, this has been on the news. I have long been suspicious of the benefits of overt evangelism in foreign cultures. It has obviously, in this case, caused a dangerous mix with the superstition endemic to the native culture.

[Scotracer]

And where christianity goes - mindless intolerance and superstitious or criminal manipulation soon follows...

and hospitals and schools and feeding programs and orphanages and...

I'm sure you have heard of the witch children of Nigeria.

Yes, this has been on the news. I have long been suspicious of the benefits of overt evangelism in foreign cultures. It has obviously, in this case, caused a dangerous mix with the superstition endemic to the native culture.

Schools teaching the children that contraception is evil and subsequently said hospitals filled with HIV infected civilians.