Jesus' teachings. Profound?

[McCulloch]

Perhaps, but for me the miracle things are secondary, in comparison to what Jesus taught. The teachings of Jesus are for me the greatest thing, not the miracles.

In what way are Jesus' teachings extraordinary? Can it be demonstrated that Jesus had great insight? What profound wisdom is there in Jesus' teachings?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

The problem in this world is the same as in this thread by competing and competition which are just subtle forms of violence.

The discussion here ongoing is just a competition and that is the problem.

Socrates and Jesus are not in competition.

The Egyptian knowledge and the Bible's wisdom are not in competition.

If people were truly seeking the truth or seeking God then there is no need to win, and there would be no reason to defeat the other people.

It is the mentality of competition which continues to argue, and never draws any conclusion, and will always miss the mark.

If people were truly seeking the truth or seeking God then there is no need to win, and there would be no reason to defeat the other people.

If a person is seeking Osiris as a way of attaining the afterlife, would you consider that a win situation, or a lose situation?

[alwayson]

Daniel 9 already gives a proto-gospel.

Modern scholars are generally agreed that its authors were saying that the then-high-priest Onias III was a Messiah (a Christ), and his death would presage a universal atonement, after which would come the end of the world—effected by the coming of the angel Michael. That’s already just one or two tweaks away from the Christian gospel.

[JP Cusick]

The discussion here ongoing is just a competition and that is the problem.

If people were truly seeking the truth or seeking God then there is no need to win, and there would be no reason to defeat the other people.

If a person is seeking Osiris as a way of attaining the afterlife, would you consider that a win situation, or a lose situation?

Clearly you missed the point about competition being the problem.

So seeking Osiris is not a win or lose situation.

In fact the name means nothing, just as anyone can use the wrong names of Jesus or LORD or God or Elohim or Buddha or any name for the Father / Creator.

The Egyptians were neither wrong nor lost based on their using a different name of Deity.

My own view is that the Bible getting lots of its scriptures from ancient Egypt and Babylon priority gives the Bible more credibility (certainly more interesting) instead of less.


-----------------------------------------------

Daniel 9 already gives a proto-gospel.

Modern scholars are generally agreed that its authors were saying that the then-high-priest Onias III was a Messiah (a Christ), and his death would presage a universal atonement, after which would come the end of the world—effected by the coming of the angel Michael. That’s already just one or two tweaks away from the Christian gospel.

You too get hung up on names and on words.

Scholars do know that the book of Daniel is a Maccabees fraud.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

The discussion here ongoing is just a competition and that is the problem.

If people were truly seeking the truth or seeking God then there is no need to win, and there would be no reason to defeat the other people.

If a person is seeking Osiris as a way of attaining the afterlife, would you consider that a win situation, or a lose situation?

Clearly you missed the point about competition being the problem.

So seeking Osiris is not a win or lose situation.

In fact the name means nothing, just as anyone can use the wrong names of Jesus or LORD or God or Elohim or Buddha or any name for the Father / Creator.

The Egyptians were neither wrong nor lost based on their using a different name of Deity.

My own view is that the Bible getting lots of its scriptures from ancient Egypt and Babylon priority gives the Bible more credibility (certainly more interesting) instead of less.


-----------------------------------------------

Daniel 9 already gives a proto-gospel.

Modern scholars are generally agreed that its authors were saying that the then-high-priest Onias III was a Messiah (a Christ), and his death would presage a universal atonement, after which would come the end of the world—effected by the coming of the angel Michael. That’s already just one or two tweaks away from the Christian gospel.

You too get hung up on names and on words.

Scholars do know that the book of Daniel is a Maccabees fraud.

Wikipedia
Osiris
Osiris (/oʊˈsaɪrᵻs/, from Egyptian wsjr or jsjrt, was an Egyptian god, usually identified as the god of the afterlife, the underworld, and the dead, but more appropriately as the god of transition, resurrection, and regeneration. He was classically depicted as a green-skinned man with a pharaoh's beard, partially mummy-wrapped at the legs, wearing a distinctive crown with two large ostrich feathers at either side, and holding a symbolic crook and flail. Osiris was at times considered the oldest son of the earth god Geb, though other sources state his father is the sun-god Ra,[3] and the sky goddess Nut, as well as being brother and husband of Isis, with Horus being considered his posthumously begotten son.[3] He was also associated with the epithet Khenti-Amentiu, meaning "Foremost of the Westerners", a reference to his kingship in the land of the dead.[4] As ruler of the dead, Osiris was also sometimes called "king of the living": ancient Egyptians considered the blessed dead "the living ones"

Mythology
The cult of Osiris (who was a god chiefly of regeneration and rebirth) had a particularly strong interest in the concept of immortality. Plutarch recounts one version of the myth in which Set (Osiris' brother), along with the Queen of Ethiopia, conspired with 72 accomplices to plot the assassination of Osiris.[19] Set fooled Osiris into getting into a box, which Set then shut, sealed with lead, and threw into the Nile. Osiris' wife, Isis, searched for his remains until she finally found him embedded in a tamarisk tree trunk, which was holding up the roof of a palace in Byblos on the Phoenician coast. She managed to remove the coffin and open it, but Osiris was already dead.

In one version of the myth, she used a spell learned from her father and brought him back to life so he could impregnate her. Afterwards he died again and she hid his body in the desert. Months later, she gave birth to Horus. While she raised Horus, Set was hunting one night and came across the body of Osiris.

Enraged, he tore the body into fourteen pieces and scattered them throughout the land. Isis gathered up all the parts of the body, except the penis (which had been eaten by a fish, the medjed) and bandaged them together for a proper burial. The gods were impressed by the devotion of Isis and resurrected Osiris as the god of the underworld. Because of his death and resurrection, Osiris was associated with the flooding and retreating of the Nile and thus with the crops along the Nile valley.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris

Is this your God, simply by another name?

[JewishVolcano]

In what way are Jesus' teachings extraordinary?

He taught to love your enemies. But loving your enemies is a broad notion subject to speculation because the degree of love is not defined. For example loving your enemy would be to simply execute him after he is defeated instead of torturing him as punishment. So Jesus gave a solid clarification - 'whoever slaps you on one cheek turn another', 'if thief steals your jacket, give him your sweater'. His teachings are extraordinary because no other religioous text to my knowledge bans self-defense.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

In what way are Jesus' teachings extraordinary?

He taught to love your enemies. But loving your enemies is a broad notion subject to speculation because the degree of love is not defined. For example loving your enemy would be to simply execute him after he is defeated instead of torturing him as punishment. So Jesus gave a solid clarification - 'whoever slaps you on one cheek turn another', 'if thief steals your jacket, give him your sweater'. His teachings are extraordinary because no other religioous text to my knowledge bans self-defense.

Matthew 5:
[44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Proverbs 25:
[21] If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:

Wikipedia
Egyptian Instruction of Amenemope

Row that we may ferry the evil man away,
For we will not act according to his evil nature;
Lift him up, give him your hand,
And leave him [in] the hands of god;
Fill his gut with your own food
That he may be sated and ashamed. (circa 1300–1075 BCE)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instruction_of_Amenemope

Wikipedia
Instruction of Amenemope (also called Instructions of Amenemopet, Wisdom of Amenemopet) is a literary work composed in Ancient Egypt, most likely during the Ramesside Period (ca. 1300–1075 BCE); it contains thirty chapters of advice for successful living, ostensibly written by the scribe Amenemope son of Kanakht as a legacy for his son. A characteristic product of the New Kingdom “Age of Personal Piety�, the work reflects on the inner qualities, attitudes, and behaviors required for a happy life in the face of increasingly difficult social and economic circumstances. It is widely regarded as one of the masterpieces of ancient near-eastern wisdom literature and has been of particular interest to modern scholars because of its relationship to the biblical Book of Proverbs.

Comparison of texts
A number of passages in the Instruction of Amenemope have been compared with the Book of Proverbs, including:
(Proverbs 22:17-18):"Incline thine ear, and hear the words of the wise, And apply thine heart to my doctrine; For it is pleasant if thou keep them in thy belly, that they may be established together upon thy lips"
(Amenemope, ch. 1):"Give thine ear, and hear what I say, And apply thine heart to apprehend; It is good for thee to place them in thine heart, let them rest in the casket of thy belly; That they may act as a peg upon thy tongue"[49]
(Proverbs 22:22):"Rob not the poor, for he is poor, neither oppress (or crush) the lowly in the gate."
(Amenemope, ch. 2):"Beware of robbing the poor, and oppressing the afflicted."[49]
(Proverbs 22:24-5): "Do not befriend the man of anger, Nor go with a wrathful man, Lest thou learn his ways and take a snare for thy soul."
(Amenemope, ch. 10): "Associate not with a passionate man, Nor approach him for conversation; Leap not to cleave to such an one; That terror carry thee not away."[49]
(Proverbs 22:29):"[if you] You see a man quick in his work, before kings will he stand, before cravens, he will not stand."
(Amenemope, ch. 30):"A scribe who is skillful in his business findeth worthy to be a courtier"[49]
(Proverbs 23:1):"When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, Consider diligently what is before thee; And put a knife to thy throat, If thou be a man given to appetite. Be not desirous of his dainties, for they are breads of falsehood."
(Amenemope, ch. 23): "Eat not bread in the presence of a ruler, And lunge not forward(?) with thy mouth before a governor(?). When thou art replenished with that to which thou has no right, It is only a delight to thy spittle. Look upon the dish that is before thee, And let that (alone) supply thy need."[49] (see above)
(Proverbs 23:4-5):"Toil not to become rich, And cease from dishonest gain; For wealth maketh to itself wings, Like an eagle that flieth heavenwards"
(Amenemope, ch. 7):"Toil not after riches; If stolen goods are brought to thee, they remain not over night with thee. They have made themselves wings like geese. And have flown into the heavens."[49]
(Proverbs 14:7):"Speak not in the hearing of a fool, for he will despise the wisdom of thy words"
(Amenemope, ch. 21):"Empty not thine inmost soul to everyone, nor spoil (thereby) thine influence"[49]
(Proverbs 23:10): "Remove not the widows landmark; And enter not into the field of the fatherless."
(Amenemope, ch. 6): "Remove not the landmark from the bounds of the field...and violate not the widows boundary"
(Proverbs 23:12):"Apply thine heart unto instruction and thine ears to the words of knowledge"
(Amenemope, ch. 1):"Give thine ears, hear the words that are said, give thine heart to interpret them."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instruction_of_Amenemope

Wikipedia
Book of Proverbs.
The "wisdom" genre was widespread throughout the ancient Near East, and reading Proverbs alongside the examples recovered from Egypt and Mesopotamia reveals the common ground shared by international wisdom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Proverbs

[JewishVolcano]

[Replying to post 46 by Tired of the Nonsense]

This egyptian text still doesn't ban self-defense. And it's not nearly as heavy on enemy-loving as scripture.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 46 by Tired of the Nonsense]

This egyptian text still doesn't ban self-defense. And it's not nearly as heavy on enemy-loving as scripture.

Jesus taught to turn the other cheek. Is that profound? Or unrealistic!

[alwayson]

Atleast some of Jesus' teachings in the Gospels are copied from Paul's letters.

So the question is if Paul's teachings are profound.

[JewishVolcano]

[Replying to post 48 by Tired of the Nonsense]

It's extraordinary. It essentially requires you to become a doormat. So as a christian you either actually become a doormat or become hypocrite who's not following his own holly book.