Why are Atheists Here?

[liamconnor]

It seems to me that far more atheists frequent this site than theists.

It is also obviously apparent that non-theist members here are very, very passionate.

But why? What is your goal.


Are you trying to create atheists? But that goal does not fit the strategy, which is typically on the defensive: i.e., "Prove to me there is a God!"


So why are you here? You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange. I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you? I think Hinduism strange; still, not seeking a Hindu forum to demand evidence for their beliefs.

So, to reiterate:

what is your goal?

why specifically Christianity?

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 40 by Danmark]

One of my later church experiences was actually after I became an ex-Christian. I had decided to start returning to church regularly, just to give God one more chance as it were. To see if there really was anything real in it. That was 2010.

I fitted back in easily as if I'd never left, feeling the holy spirit and all that jazz. I played the part as if it were natural. I was immediately asked to take on a role in a stage show the church was putting on. It was quite a big budget one and I'd been involved in it before, so I said yes, because I love stage acting. In fact I'm sure the producer must have thought that God had sent me, because they were short of people who could spare the time and was able to act and really needed me. They even gave me what they thought was a more challenging role than last time.

The thing that really made me realise just what a crock it all was is that after each performance, the director would get up on stage in front of the audience and do a ten minute sermon and it was all just emotional appeal. He even put the emotional tone in his voice, trying to lay on a guilt trip about how Jesus had died for us and all Jesus wanted was to show us his love and was it too much to ask that we open our arms to him and accept him?

There was absolutely nothing rational or logical about anything he said, in fact the opposite. It was all just emotional appeal and religious fantasy. The thing is I had been hearing sermons like this all my life, I just didn't see what it was before. I didn't recognise just how much speakers relied on emotional appeals before.

When it comes down to it, when altar calls are being made, emotional appeals are even more rife from up in the pulpit. And of course you have the gentle soothing music being played to manipulate you and stir your emotions even more. Then it's "Can you feel that tugging at your heart? That's God stirring you, urging you to come forward." or "I can sense that god is convicting your hearts and you need to come up here" and guff like that. All taking advantage of emotions in people.

It's no wonder that people get all emotional when they go up front for prayer.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 38 by OnceConvinced]

"6) Christianity being pushed on us. Not only indoctrination, but people wanting our laws to be biblical based. Wanting to insist on things like bible in schools. They are trying to push their fantasies onto us as reality. We must stand up against this stuff.

**** Interesting that here in Oz people pay to send their children to Christian schools whereas eductation is free in public schools.

8) Lack of acceptance of others
Christians tend to believe that we are all born dirty sinners and that we are in effect worthless and unworthy and they see themselves and others the same way. We are all in desperate need of a saviour because we are so filthy and evil. This is not a healthy way to live and it’s certainly not a healthy way to treat others. People are driven to despair because they are made to feel so dirty and sinful. People have even been driven to suicide due to not being accepted by their Christian families and friends because they are deemed to be filthy or perverse. "

****Sorry i am not going to cry for all those so badly affected by Christian indoctrination.
Can not imagine many people would have ended up in like situation. Brought up in atheistic environment, meeting my mother for the first time at 16 who is so fundamentalist and in my ignorance baptized in every church I went to, went to theological college!! whoa what a journey! No i did not commit suicide, no i do not judge all those who are part of my past for I have learned many lessons.
Made to feel ditry and sinful and evil? What do we do sit around and take it or use our God given intelligence and go on a search of our own. In today's world we have no excuise. We can read for ourselves, right?

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 42 by Monta]

**** Interesting that here in Oz people pay to send their children to Christian schools whereas eductation is free in public schools.

I can speak to what OC says, at least here in Ireland. Here in the Land of Saints and Scholars, virtually ALL primary education (that is, age 5 to 12-13, generally speaking) schools are controlled by Christian churches and/or bodies. Within the entire country, I am not aware of a single school that can be described as secular.
I myself went to three Roman Catholic schools. Within the area where I lived, there was no opportunity to go to a school of a different denomination. Within these schools, we were given lessons from a Roman Catholic perspective. In my secondary education (teenage years up until school leaving), lessons on Islam and Buddhism were given by Catholic priests. Surely I do not need to describe the conflict in interest here?

Sorry i am not going to cry for all those so badly affected by Christian indoctrination.

You don't have to, but it should make you pause for a moment and wonder to yourself why, if Christianity is correct and so wonderful, that education in it gives rise to problems like myself and OC describe?

Can not imagine many people would have ended up in like situation.

Well, you've heard from at least two people then that it does happen. I've heard many a story from people who describe horrors from having grown up in Christianity.

Brought up in atheistic environment, meeting my mother for the first time at 16 who is so fundamentalist

I apologize if I ask something too personal but was your meeting your mother for the first time at 16 a direct result of your atheist environment?

Made to feel ditry and sinful and evil?

Yup, this happened to me when I was young. My mother was extremely emotional and psychologically abuse to myself and my siblings, and yet I had it drummed into me by Christian priests the Ten Commandments, the one about honouring thy mother and thy father. I felt extremely guilty that I just could not do that commandment, I felt guilty over hating someone who was abusing me.

If you yourself never felt dirty, sinful or evil, great, but ask yourself...why not? Doesn't your religion teach that each and every human is born with Original Sin? That humans owe a debt to God so great that no human could 'pay off' that debt, except for Jesus?

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 38 by OnceConvinced]

"6) Christianity being pushed on us. Not only indoctrination, but people wanting our laws to be biblical based. Wanting to insist on things like bible in schools. They are trying to push their fantasies onto us as reality. We must stand up against this stuff.

**** Interesting that here in Oz people pay to send their children to Christian schools whereas eductation is free in public schools.

We have similar here in New Zealand and I sent mine to one such school while I was a Christian. Most families were Christian. I think they are desirable even to non-Christians because people think there will be less bullying or that there will be a smaller teacher to student ratio.

As a kid growing up in New Zealand, we had bible in schools right up until high school age. I remember every kid having to be involved even those who didn't want to be there and felt that Christianity was being shoved down their throats. It seems that now, parents have to give their permission for their kids to be put through this indoctrination. But it wasn't the case in the 70s.

My current partner has a 9 year old daughter and she sent her to a Christian kindy when she was little. She would come back from kindy fully indoctrinated and repeating stuff she'd been taught about the bible as if it were true and talking about God as if he was real. So her and her husband at the time took her out right away. The indoctrination was just so blatant and they were filling her head with a lot of religious nonsense rather than doing the job they were supposed to do.

8) Lack of acceptance of others
Christians tend to believe that we are all born dirty sinners and that we are in effect worthless and unworthy and they see themselves and others the same way. We are all in desperate need of a saviour because we are so filthy and evil. This is not a healthy way to live and it’s certainly not a healthy way to treat others. People are driven to despair because they are made to feel so dirty and sinful. People have even been driven to suicide due to not being accepted by their Christian families and friends because they are deemed to be filthy or perverse. "

****Sorry i am not going to cry for all those so badly affected by Christian indoctrination.

Lack of empathy noted. But hey, someone needs to.

I've even had PM discussions with a former Christian-member of this site who drove his gay daughter to suicide, yet blamed the gays for "luring her into their world", rather than his own unacceptance and judgemental attitude towards her. I was horrified that he couldn't see that it was his attitudes and having her believe that she was sinful and disgusting that drove her to suicide.

As a kid growing up in a Christian home I can look back now and see all the issues I faced due to the Christian indoctrination I was put through. My parents meant well, but still...

Can not imagine many people would have ended up in like situation. Brought up in atheistic environment

Everyone has their own opinions on how to raise children and all make mistakes, but at least atheists are not going by ancient religious documents written by people thousands of years ago, applying those standards to today and claiming they are God's standards.

Made to feel ditry and sinful and evil? What do we do sit around and take it or use

Some people commit suicide. Others remain in their misery continuing to cry out to gods for help... help that never comes. Some manage to find ways to overcome, some by moving on and realising that the religious teachings they had as children were not healthy so adopt new mindsets.

our God given intelligence and go on a search of our own.

God given? I would just use the intelligence I was born with, the intelligence I gain through good genes because of evolution. Which I ultimately did. I now understand that because of evolution we have certain urges, which we call human nature and that these urges may sometimes be harmful. Other times they are harmless. We need to control these urges but we don't have to feel dirty and sinful because of them.

One of the things that I was freed from, when I lost my faith was that I no longer had to feel I needed to beat myself up over certain human instincts. They were there and they were natural. It was just a matter of continuing to control them.

In today's world we have no excuise. We can read for ourselves, right?

It's not that easy to break free from religious indoctrination. Just ask those who have.

[Danmark]

Christianity spread thru the power of the secular State that supported it. That government influence continued even into the 20th Century. It is ludicrous to claim that somehow it has been Christians the last 500 years who have suffered in the English speaking countries of England, the U.S., New Zealand and Australia. Both the State and the public have made free thinkers the disadvantaged outsiders.

Finally, now in the 21st Century we see free thinkers, agnostics, atheists, and non religious people able to talk back and stand up for freedom of thought against hundreds of years of Christian oppression. Yet there remain Christians who cry about how disadvantaged they have been. Ridiculous!

It is the freethinkers and non religious who have battled for the right to simply speak up for their right to independence of thought.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 45 by Danmark]

Anyone in the United States (at least) who doubts that Christians still hold secular advantage need only look to the fact Christians continue to hold a favored position in the U.S. as anyone can see by looking at the religious or non religious positions of our elected 'leaders.' When was the last professing non Christian elected President of U.S.?

My guess is you would have to go back to our Deist founding fathers.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 45 by Danmark]

Anyone in the United States (at least) who doubts that Christians still hold secular advantage need only look to the fact Christians continue to hold a favored position in the U.S. as anyone can see by looking at the religious or non religious positions of our elected 'leaders.' When was the last professing non Christian elected President of U.S.?

Would be interesting checking what religion are the leaders in question;
perhaps not Christian afterall.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 45 by Danmark]

Anyone in the United States (at least) who doubts that Christians still hold secular advantage need only look to the fact Christians continue to hold a favored position in the U.S. as anyone can see by looking at the religious or non religious positions of our elected 'leaders.' When was the last professing non Christian elected President of U.S.?

Would be interesting checking what religion are the leaders in question;
perhaps not Christian afterall.

Indeed. But in one respect it does not matter. The fact that they DECLARE they are Christian demonstrates they see it as a political advantage. Whether they are sincere is indeed a separate issue. I have no doubt Donald Trump is not a Christian despite his claims. Even assuming he has confessed he was wrong in his boasts about his sexual crimes (he hasn't; he bragged about them, then denied what he bragged about), he lies on a daily basis. We know this because he contradicts himself. What he says today he refutes the following day. Christians sin just as we all do, but he sins every day. There is no contrition. He never admits error. Belief is not enough. Even the devil believes ... and shudders.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 48 by Danmark]


"Indeed. But in one respect it does not matter. The fact that they DECLARE they are Christian demonstrates they see it as a political advantage. Whether they are sincere is indeed a separate issue. I have no doubt Donald Trump is not a Christian despite his claims. Even assuming he has confessed he was wrong in his boasts about his sexual crimes (he hasn't; he bragged about them, then denied what he bragged about), he lies on a daily basis. We know this because he contradicts himself. What he says today he refutes the following day. Christians sin just as we all do, but he sins every day. There is no contrition. He never admits error. Belief is not enough. Even the devil believes ... and shudders."

Good points but my mind was elsewhere.
I should have re-read yr original post, I think yu were talking about members of Congress? When I last read who's who, it was shown they are 3/4 Jews (this is from memory but defenitely over 50%). For Jews, Jewishness is their religion. That's how I understand it.

[Zzyzx]

.

I should have re-read yr original post, I think yu were talking about members of Congress? When I last read who's who, it was shown they are 3/4 Jews (this is from memory but defenitely over 50%). For Jews, Jewishness is their religion. That's how I understand it.

It might be prudent to NOT rely on memory. Information is readily available on the Internet.

Would be interesting checking what religion are the leaders in question; perhaps not Christian afterall.

Rather than just speculating one might do ten seconds of research:

The share of U.S. adults who describe themselves as Christians has been declining for decades, but the U.S. Congress is about as Christian today as it was in the early 1960s, according to a new analysis by Pew Research Center. Indeed, among members of the new, 115th Congress, 91% describe themselves as Christians. This is nearly the same percentage as in the 87th Congress (1961 to 1962, the earliest years for which comparable data are available), when 95% of members were Christian. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -congress/

Reading that several times might help memory and comprehension -- NINETY-ONE percent (91%) Christian in Congress.

"Indeed. But in one respect it does not matter. The fact that they DECLARE they are Christian demonstrates they see it as a political advantage. Whether they are sincere is indeed a separate issue. I have no doubt Donald Trump is not a Christian despite his claims.

An unfortunate aspect of research is that findings may differ from what one wants to hear.

In that case, SPECULATE and make EXCUSES -- 'they are not REAL Christians'

If one declares they are Christian, WHO is authorized / entitled / empowered to say they are not?