According to the tales, Jesus gave up a weekend.

[Zzyzx]

.
According to the tales, Jesus gave up a weekend. What’s the big deal?

What is the ‘sacrifice’ in a supposedly eternal being giving up a weekend being ‘dead’?

An 'omnipotent god' (or part thereof, or whatever is claimed) would presumably know that the 'death' was extremely temporary -- just a few hours (less than 48 according to the tale).

[Clownboat]

I find there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the ransom because many do not grasp the notion of atonement .

I wonder why that is.

First, are we talking about:
Regular atonement?
Eternal atonement?
Everlasting atonement?

Just like 'sin'. Nothing confusing going on here...

[Divine Insight]

The following are all faith statements I have no proof to offer beyond my faith in the bible

{snip}

NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

Then you aren't debating. All you are doing is telling us what you have placed your faith in.

Moreover since you have placed your faith in the Jehovah's Witnesses organization, you don't need to tell us what you believe since we already know what that organization teaches people to believe. If you are claiming to be one of them, then you can hardly claim to have beliefs that differ from theirs.

So we can actually tell you what you must believe if you want to remain a JW.

[JehovahsWitness]

So we can actually tell you what you must believe if you want to remain a JW.

You can do as you please. I do believe, however there are rules on the forum about giving unsolicited advice, (I deferr to the moderators on that). I personally just try to address the posts and not the posters.



JW

[Clownboat]

The following are all faith statements I have no proof to offer beyond my faith in the bible

I would just like to point out that by allowing this, we get people like Ttruscott that are then able to invent (or follow someone else that has invented) their own version of Christianiy.

That is where faith in the Bible leads it seems. Not to one faith or one god, which is what I would expect a book from a god to do, but to whatever you can dream up as long as the 'book' is the source.

How anyone can acknowledge all the different faiths created around this book and then pretend that they got it right is beyond my comprehension.

"He who begins by loving Christianity more than Truth, will proceed by loving his sect or church better than Christianity, and end in loving himself better than all."
- Samuel Taylor Coleridge

[Divine Insight]

I find there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the ransom because many do not grasp the notion of atonement .

What? No ransom is required for atonement. So you need to explain the notion of a ransom, not the notion of atonement.

The penalty of sin is death, not torture, but Jesus torture was the only way to pay the ransom. He endured it all because of his love for His Father and for us, his adopted children, and in response we love him so.

Wrong again. There are many ways that Jesus could have died without being crucified. He could have simply died a natural death. That would count as dying.

He also wouldn't need to die at the hands of humans. After all if killing Jesus was a sin, why would a decent benevolent God demand that humans commit yet another sin in order to be given a chance to atone previous sins.

This theology makes no sense.

He "bore"/ endured the experience, at (as Isaiah wrote), no little cost to his person and because of him those that put faith in him may not be held to account

And now you've just blown the whole theology clean out of the water. Why should placing faith in Jesus result in people not being held to account?

How does that equate to justice?

And if a person is sincere in wanting to repent and thus earn their own atonement, then there would be no need for Jesus since people can earn there own atonement by simply choosing to repent.

Moreover, if you aren't willing to repent for Yahweh, (i.e. God), but you are willing to repent for Jesus what does that say?

You see, it doesn't even make any sense to place Jesus before Yahweh, yet this is precisely what Christianity does.

[benchwarmer]

The following are all faith statements I have no proof to offer beyond my faith in the bible

ARE ALL SINNERS UNRIGHTEOUS?

No. Sin is any action which violates divine law and principle. Unrighteousness is any action that violates divine standards. While in the absolute all sin is by definition unrighteous (and visa versa) God's standards for humans are not necessarily placed at perfection, thus he may attribute righteousness to a sinner, if they obey his requirement for them.

You've just equated the two terms thus rendering this entire argument moot.

Person A is a sinner, therefore unrighteous.
Person B is unrighteous, therefore a sinner.

Both person A and person B have both attributes: sinner and unrighteous.

Therefore, both person A and B fall into "the wages of sin is death". They both "get the same wage" as they both have 'sinner' in their attribute list.

What God (if it exists) does about this situation is of course its prerogative. Both person A and B deserve their wage - death - but according to the theology the wage may be taken away if you let Jesus take the wage instead which is the thrust of the OP if I'm not mistaken. Jesus did not, in fact, take this wage according to the theology. He is sitting in heaven at the right hand of God no? Not dead?

So, who got left 'holding the bag' as it were with the wage of death for a repentant sinner? No one as far as I can tell. Repentant sinner: dies, comes back to life. Jesus: dies, comes back to life. Why does the Repentant sinner need Jesus? He also died as Jesus did before standing in front of God? What extra thing did Jesus suffer/do that pays for anything? Not break any rules before he died? Not sure how that helps anything.

[Divine Insight]

So we can actually tell you what you must believe if you want to remain a JW.

You can do as you please. I do believe, however there are rules on the forum about giving unsolicited advice, (I deferr to the moderators on that). I personally just try to address the posts and not the posters.

I wasn't addressing any individual poster. I was simply pointing out the fact that if you claim to be a JW then you have no choice but to agree with what they teach.

This would be true of all JW's. Not just you.

If you disagree with what JW's teach, then what sense does it make to claim to be one of them?

[Clownboat]

So we can actually tell you what you must believe if you want to remain a JW.

You can do as you please. I do believe, however there are rules on the forum about giving unsolicited advice, (I deferr to the moderators on that). I personally just try to address the posts and not the posters.

I wasn't addressing any individual poster. I was simply pointing out the fact that if you claim to be a JW then you have no choice but to agree with what they teach.

This would be true of all JW's. Not just you.

If you disagree with what JW's teach, then what sense does it make to claim to be one of them?

Your post was a logical observation it would seem to me.
Moreover, when peole post their personal beliefs in place of debating, the readers are the real victims.

[Zzyzx]

.

Moreover, when peole post their personal beliefs in place of debating, the readers are the real victims.

Exactly

AND the result is not debating Christianity, but discussing someone's personal beliefs / self-promotion.

[1213]

…By what I have read, Jesus was a laborer until about age thirty…

One could say that even 100 years would be shorth time, so maybe it doesn’t really matter. However, according to the Bible, Jesus was not just ordinary laborer until age thirty:

…and when he became twelve years old, they having gone up to Jerusalem, according to the custom of the feast, and having finished the days, in their returning the child Jesus remained behind in Jerusalem, and Joseph and his mother did not know, and, having supposed him to be in the company, they went a day's journey, and were seeking him among the kindred and among the acquaintances, and not having found him, they turned back to Jerusalem seeking him. And it came to pass, after three days, they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both hearing them and questioning them, and all those hearing him were astonished at his understanding and answers…
Luke 2:42-47

…If he was / is, as claimed, an eternal supernatural entity (or part thereof), a few hours (less than 48) spent ‘dead’ in a tomb would be an insignificant interval for an ‘eternal’ entity.

The supposed suffering associated with execution was far less than many people experience.

Again, what’s the big deal?

Difficult to compare what people experience, or what they have experienced, but for me the big deal is what Jesus taught. I don’t think there is any good reason why he should have suffered longer than what he did.