Are we living in the last days?

[otseng]

From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.

For debate:
Are we living in the last days?

[William]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #429]

Even Jesus' disciples asked when the conclusion of the system of things would be. (Matt 24:3). Then Jesus go on to speak of the things that would let them and us know that he was coming.

What intrigues me about this is that those things biblical Jesus spoke of can be applied to any time frame so becomes redundant for that.
For example, the disciples could have believed that Jesus would return in their day.
We know that this did not happen.
And so on and so forth, through the 20 centuries gone by between then and now.

Each generation of new believers has the same set of things to look out for which 'signal' the imminent return of Christ, which never actually happens, but of course 'could happen' so 'keep the faith'.

Sounds as fishy as the symbol. Lots of wiggle room.



Out walking the other day, I took this photo;



Such advertising has never failed to catch the attention of the desperate - hook-line and sinker.

Anyway, there is conflicting information also attributed to been spoken of by biblical Jesus

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only"

Who knows. Maybe The Father has decided that the event doesn't need to happen at all.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #429]

i. The desciples didn't know anything. That's why they were pro.osed the holy spirit to give them understanding.

ii. The Timothy claim that they were in the last days confirms my report that the last days arw from the time of the apostles to now and beyond.. precisely, the angel in Faniels said ' ....until 2300 evenings a d mornings, then EVERYTHONG SHALL BE ACCOMPLISHED..'. So, it is shall be 2300 AD.

But, you still need to show how the 70 wk prephesy is accomplished.

Paul wasn't writing of his present system of things. He was writing in the future tense. So what you say here is not valid.

It is not I that need to show how the 70 week prophecy was accomplished but you that needs to show that the 'last days' started at the end of the 70 weeks. When those that actually lived at that time did not say they were living in the last days but that the last days were. None of the apostles wrote that they were in the last days.

[Noose001]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #429]

Paul wasn't writing of his present system of things. He was writing in the future tense. So what you say here is not valid.

It is not I that need to show how the 70 week prophecy was accomplished but you that needs to show that the 'last days' started at the end of the 70 weeks. When those that actually lived at that time did not say they were living in the last days but that the last days were. None of the apostles wrote that they were in the last days.

i. 70 wk prophesy shows everything that needs to happen until the end of time/ restoration.

ii. Paul was communicating through letters. There's no way Paul is writing to 1st century people to explain about 21st + century people.

iii. For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: "For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
Hebrews 10:36-37 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/heb.10.36-37.NKJV

There's no way Paul is talking about 21st century + in the quoted verse.

[Clownboat]

I do not use your limited view of the Bible, but to each his own.
But others that share my view of the Bible, I hope they find encouragement in what I typed seeing that we can figure out what the last two kingdoms are in the vision of Daniel, though they are not named in the Bible. All we have to do is read history.

What your view of the Bible seems to be:
It seems that you have made an idol out of a book. The book being the Bible. How does your god concept feel about this graven image that many Christians idolize as if it were the words of a god if you had to guess? The book was created by men afterall, much like the golden calf.

[2timothy316]

The book was created by men afterall, much like the golden calf.

Your opinion has been noted. My opinion is that the Bible is not the word of man but Word of God so to follow the Word of God, spoken, written or whatever is not idol worship.

Here is the problem with people that think following commands in the Bible is idol worship.
Where did people learn of idol worship as being bad? The Bible. So if one is following the command Bible on idol worship and they believe the Bible is of men, then that one is violating their own rebuke. One that tells others not to do something but do it themselves is called a hypocrite. So to call the Bible an idol based on what it says in the Bible is a paradox. Why is a person following a command from the very thing they are calling not from God?

[Clownboat]

The book was created by men afterall, much like the golden calf.

Your opinion has been noted.

The Devils is to be the deceiver. Are you really saying that it is just my opintion that men wrote the Bible?
I urge you to not deceive in order to promote a religion. Surely you agree, that is how we got at least the competing religious ideas that we have (not yours of course, that one is the true one right?).

Here is the problem with people that think following commands in the Bible is idol worship.
Where did people learn of idol worship as being bad? The Bible. So if one is following the command Bible on idol worship and they believe the Bible is of men, then that one is violating their own rebuke. One that tells others not to do something but do it themselves is called a hypocrite. So to call the Bible an idol based on what it says in the Bible is a paradox. Why is a person following a command from the very thing they are calling not from God?

I don't need the Bible to tell me that you worship a book as an idol. Merriam will do. I also never claimed that worshiping the Bible is bad (yet), that is your implication. I'm just pointing out the behavior.

idol noun
Definition of idol
1: an object of extreme devotion
2: a representation or symbol of an object of worship
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/idol

You may not like it, but you made your bed and you need to sleep in it. You have your own golden calf it seems.

Side note:
When people make an idol out of the Bible and their own interpretation of it, which they will cling to as if it is themself, they are putting their own view in opposition to the wider principles of love and acceptance that Jesus taught. Such folk will become increasingly marginalized as they put the worst face possible on Christianity. They will fight among themselves as well because what they are really doing is self promotion, each of them seeking to claim to be speaking for their god.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #436]

LOL
Merriam Webster doesn't tell us if something is bad or not in God's eyes. Also, you're still using the word of men to dictate what is good and bad to God. This has not helped your case. BTW where did you learn that the Golden Calf was an idol not to be worshiped? The dictionary?

And BTW I sleep completely fine in the bed I've made because to me the Bible is not an idol. In my opinion men were the writers but they were not the author. But we are getting way off topic.

[Clownboat]

LOL
Merriam Webster doesn't tell us if something is bad or not in God's eyes.

No one has claimed that it did. Please try to stay focused.

Also, you're still using the word of men to dictate what is good and bad to God.

What is there besides the words of men? Please point to words that do not come from men? I'm getting the feeling that you are not taking this seriously when you say such obviously nonsencical things like that.

This has not helped your case.

Let's let the readers decide. I suppose you could believe such a thing due to faith though.

BTW where did you learn that the Golden Calf was an idol not to be worshiped? The dictionary?

I was a born again, drunk in the holy ghost, street evangalizing Christian for 2 decades and I have read the Bible from cover to cover as well as attending Christian school, k - 12. There is much that I know of the Bible that you are likely not aware of.

And BTW I sleep completely fine in the bed I've made because to me the Bible is not an idol.

Perhaps this applies to you then (what I said above).
"When people make an idol out of the Bible and their own interpretation of it, which they will cling to as if it is themself..."

In my opinion men were the writers but they were not the author.

And now we battle with the English language!

au-thor
noun
a writer of a book, article, or report.

[2timothy316]

BTW where did you learn that the Golden Calf was an idol not to be worshiped? The dictionary?

I was a born again, drunk in the holy ghost, street evangalizing Christian for 2 decades and I have read the Bible from cover to cover as well as attending Christian school, k - 12. There is much that I know of the Bible that you are likely not aware of.

Why should a person accept your using the Bible to make it bad to follow the Bible? I mean aren't you saying we shouldn't follow the Bible because that its idolatry? Yet as you say above, the thing where you learned of idolatry was bad from from the Bible. I don't care what you're aware of in the Bible. It's your use of it is questionable.

And now we battle with the English language!

au-thor
noun
a writer of a book, article, or report.

Sure that's no problem.

Author: 2nd definition: one that originates or creates something
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/author

The Bible was written through dictation. Let me save you some time on looking up the word dictation.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dictation
2nd meaning: the act or manner of uttering words to be transcribed

[Clownboat]

Why should a person accept your using the Bible to make it bad to follow the Bible?

They shouldn't if I were to do such a thing. Don't just accept what people say, that allows religions to propogate. Think for yourself.

I mean aren't you saying we shouldn't follow the Bible because that its idolatry? Yet as you say above, the thing where you learned of idolatry was bad from from the Bible. I don't care what you're aware of in the Bible. It's your use of it is questionable.

This just seems like you are venting frustration. I see nothing debate worthy. If I missed a specific point you are trying to make, please elucidate.

And now we battle with the English language!

au-thor
noun
a writer of a book, article, or report.

Sure that's no problem.

Author: 2nd definition: one that originates or creates something
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/author

Why did you quote mine from Merriam?
a: one that originates or creates something : SOURCE
software authors
film authors
the author of this crime
Obviously these do not point to some external source as you would like it to mean.

Please show that humans did not complete these things in regards to the Bible. You know, like how every other book in the history of mankind has been written.

The Bible was written through dictation. Let me save you some time on looking up the word dictation.

Now all you have to do is show us that you speak the truth and are not here to deceive us. Can you?

Readers, let's examine his claim:
Lev 21:18 "18 No man who has any defect may come near (food offerings): no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles"

Ezekiel 4:12 "12 Eat the food as you would a loaf of barley bread; bake it in the sight of the people, using human excrement for fuel."

We could go on and on of course. Readers, does this sounds like something the creator of a universe would dictate to a human! Just reading the Bible shows how human it is IMO. Not to mention this god concept sure doesn't assist in helping with debate like I would think it would if it were to care.