Are we living in the last days?

[otseng]

From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.

For debate:
Are we living in the last days?

[brunumb]

The Bible was written through dictation.

Does that now mean that God is responsible for all the discrepancies and inconsistencies in the Bible? Why would God dictate one version of an event (details of the resurrection for example) to one writer and a different version of the same event to another writer?

[2ndpillar2]

From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.

For debate:
Are we living in the last days?

The "end shall come" after the "gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world" (Matthew 24:14). Yeshua preached the "kingdom" using parables, so that those without ears to hear, the wicked (Daniel 12:10) & (Isaiah 6:9) will not understand. For the last around 2000 years/" two days" (Hosea 5:15- 6:2), "I will go away", whereas the the false gospel of grace is the gospel being preached. With the internet, the true gospel of the kingdom can go around the world at the speed of light. There are many parables looking at the kingdom from different perspectives, such as Matthew 24, but Matthew 13:47-50 is somewhat distinct in nature, with respect to what happens to the "wicked"/lawless. As for what happens to the elect (the combined Judah and Ephraim/Israel), that is best described in Ezekiel 36 & 37 & Joel 3. No one will have to tell you, for the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light (Joel 2). The present virus simply kills the compromised and the very old who are destined to die at an advanced rate, with or without the virus. The death rate of the virus is less than 1%. The black plague put this statistic to shame. What you have to worry about is the mark of the beast, for which those who have it, will drink from the cup of "His anger" (Revelation 14:10). The 7th head of the beast of Revelation 17, the "beast with two horns like a lamb", is the Roman emperor Constantine, and the church he molded, who carry his mark, is looking at bad times ahead. The best set up for the "end", is described in Zechariah 14, which pretty much describes the world we see today.

[brunumb]

The best set up for the "end", is described in Zechariah 14, which pretty much describes the world we see today.

No it doesn't. The time and place to which the descriptions refer are long gone. And more importantly, none of it actually happened. To relate the descriptions in Zechariah 14 to anything today requires one to stretch the imagination beyond breaking point. It is just another case of the failure of biblical prediction.

[2ndpillar2]

The best set up for the "end", is described in Zechariah 14, which pretty much describes the world we see today.

No it doesn't. The time and place to which the descriptions refer are long gone. And more importantly, none of it actually happened. To relate the descriptions in Zechariah 14 to anything today requires one to stretch the imagination beyond breaking point. It is just another case of the failure of biblical prediction.

Zechariah 14:1-2 refers to the nations gathered against Jerusalem, a time when the "LORD" will go out and fight against those nations, pretty much in line with Daniel 2:45, whereas the nations will be "crushed", and along with Joel 3:2, whereas the nations/Gentiles, will be judged, in the "day of the Lord" (Joel 2:31). Zechariah 14:12 describes the plague the Lord will strike the people who go against Jerusalem with the same description as can be found in the description of a nuclear weapon used in the book "Hiroshima". Right now, Iran is trying to produce their atomic weapon systems, which have been kept in check so far through the use of Israeli hackers. After the nations are brought down, the nations will gather their gold and silver to give to Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:14). At that time the nations will go to Jerusalem to "worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths". None of this has happened as of this date. The lead up to this set up, was WWI and the 1917 Balfour agreement, introducing Zionist into the area of Judea, and then the British destruction of Germans and the Turkish Caliphate at the 1918 battle of Megiddo (Magedon)(Armageddon)(hill of Megiddon). The WWII destruction was followed by the nationhood of Israel. The crushing of the clay and steel feet of Daniel 2:24, the Muslims and the Russians (a product of the Roman Czar/Caesar), was chronicled in Zechariah 12, by the description of what was to happen in the 1967 and 1973 Israeli wars, whereas the Muslims were as a sheave among a flaming torch (Israelis). This will continue to happen until the the Persians (Iranians) are also crushed as stated in Daniel 2. As for the uniformed, they will be as the homeowner who was broken into, because they didn't know when the thief was coming (Matthew 24:43).

[brunumb]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #444]

Very creative and imaginative, but there is nothing in the original text that you can specifically connect with any of the events you have described from recent times. It's just a case of making up any narrative you want to meet your agenda. People do the same sort of thing with the writings of Nostradamus. All just make-believe.

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #444]

Very creative and imaginative, but there is nothing in the original text that you can specifically connect with any of the events you have described from recent times. It's just a case of making up any narrative you want to meet your agenda. People do the same sort of thing with the writings of Nostradamus. All just make-believe.

I just noted the tip of the spear. Plus as it written, those of the light go to the light. Those of the darkness, do not know were they go. John 12:35 What I write, is for the few, not the many (Matthew 7:13). Everything hidden will be revealed. It is "make believe", until the thief breaks into your house (Matthew 24:42-43), and then it is too late.

[brunumb]

I just noted the tip of the spear. Plus as it written, those of the light go to the light. Those of the darkness, do not know were they go. John 12:35 What I write, is for the few, not the many (Matthew 7:13). Everything hidden will be revealed. It is "make believe", until the thief breaks into your house (Matthew 24:42-43), and then it is too late.

Preachers have been peddling this nonsense for centuries. The same old scare tactics have been used, with some variation, on every generation for nigh on two thousand years with nothing to show for it. What is written is not for the few but for the many who are gullible and fearful. I wonder what all the countless previous preachers were thinking when their days eventually came to an end but their predicted end of the world did not.

[TRANSPONDER]

Yes. I could have saved a post as the excellent ones above say it all, but the 'Last days' (the Pharisee -resurrection -belief) has really been superseded in Christianity where the soul floats to heaven to be judged right away.

The Last Days is still important in Fundamentalist belief with Jesus coming to wind up the world and judge everyone, which you'd think would just have the humans in heaven or hell and the animals and vegetables living without us helping their natural extinctions along. But some Eschatological literature I sent for in the early days did seem to believe in the Paulinist judgment of the Messiah on earth with everyone living the perfect life who hadn't been killed in the plagues, Armageddon or tossed on the fire of Hinnom and bulldozed into a mass grave (the graphic illustrations lost no opportunity to shock and frighten
) and the righteous remnant lived a perfect (and probably eternal) life under the Messiah's perfect rule.

But they had made the mistake of predicting a date when all this would come to pass. I'd been a kid at school when the first End of the world prediction came and went and this one came and went too, as has every Last Days prediction ever since. Threats of the end of the world have never moved me since, except to laughter and contempt; and spiky threats that I'll be sorry when Jesus comes in pow'r and vindicates them before me just make me laugh louder.

In an ideal world (designed by me, of course ) anyone going public with an end of world or at least a national disaster prediction should be subject to advertising standards; that is, they should face a massive fine or a jail sentence for scaremongering when their prediction fails. Yes, this plague is a bad one, but we are coping with it (though I doubt that air travel will ever be the same again, alas) and no thanks to religion and all thanks to science. This is not evidence of prophecy coming true. The prophecy that was the favourite one was the setting up of Israel in the '50's of course, but that was self - fulfilling to a great extent and really 80 years later, it's beginning to wear a bit thin as prophecy coming true.

I will only mention the tiresome and frankly, rather silly, trick of pulling any faith - claim or prediction out of the air and then finding some Biblical passage that looks vaguely like it fits, and never mind the context. That will not or should not impress anyone but those who want to be impressed by it.

[2ndpillar2]

I just noted the tip of the spear. Plus as it written, those of the light go to the light. Those of the darkness, do not know were they go. John 12:35 What I write, is for the few, not the many (Matthew 7:13). Everything hidden will be revealed. It is "make believe", until the thief breaks into your house (Matthew 24:42-43), and then it is too late.

Preachers have been peddling this nonsense for centuries. The same old scare tactics have been used, with some variation, on every generation for nigh on two thousand years with nothing to show for it. What is written is not for the few but for the many who are gullible and fearful. I wonder what all the countless previous preachers were thinking when their days eventually came to an end but their predicted end of the world did not.

The "great tribulation" is not the "end of the world, it is the beginning of the kingdom of God on earth in the terms of David being king over Israel, the combined elements of Judah and Ephraim (Ezekiel 37:24-26), to live on the land given to Jacob, "forever". This has not happened, but Yeshua taught one was to be prepared, as in ready for the day the thief breaks into their house (Matthew 24). The "many" are to hear the message of the kingdom before the end (Matthew 24:14), but the "many" will follow the false prophets of Matthew 7:13-15 to their destruction, because they have eyes, but cannot see, and ears and cannot hear (Matthew 13:13). This is because they choose darkness over light. Now if you follow the false prophets, such as Paul, and follow the path of wickedness/lawlessness, you will not understand (Daniel 12:10), and one will be gathered out and tossed into the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:48-50). One can either repent, turn away from sin/lawlessness, and produce good fruit (Matthew 3), or suffer the consequences. Apparently, many will come out of the furnace of fire, a baptism of fire, but I expect they will limp out in worse shape than they went in. The "deceived" will probably come out in much better shape than those that do the deceiving. According to Ezekiel 34, the fat shepherds, those who do not feed or heal the sheep, will be the first to receive judgment (Ezekiel 34:16). As for the scoffers, who feel they are educated and wise, they are left in the dark (Matthew 11:25)(Proverbs 19:29), and apparently have judgments specifically prepared for them. Yeshua preached you need to prepare, but the serpent and his false prophet taught that you shouldn't worry, for you "surely shall not die" (Genesis 3:4) (1 Cor 15:51), or that 72 virgins are waiting for you in heaven if you cut the head off a kafir who mocks the fictional Mhmd, or pray to the supposed location of a black rock 5 times a day, whose location has been transitory during the history of Islam. The Atheist apparently don't know where they are going, or where they have been, but are prepared to tell others they are lost, whether they are or not. Time will tell.

[Tcg]

The Atheist apparently don't know where they are going, or where they have been, but are prepared to tell others they are lost, whether they are or not. Time will tell.

I know where I am going and where I have been. I wouldn't tell others they are lost nor have I seen others do so. A bit of a straw man no doubt.

Yes, time will tell and it will tell us the same thing the last two thousand years or so have told us. There is no reason to accept the end times claims some continue to make even after failure after failure of the claims to be shown true.


Tcg