Right now..Lawless Days of Prophecy?

[nzlaws]

International examples of corruption, crime, etc include Nations perceived to be the least corrupt - what conclusions do theological observers come to based upon this amateur observation of evidence?

And more importantly what is the likely response from organised religions to this reality or how much worse before evidence quantifies prophecy?

I have worked a little in the mental health arena some years ago and am aware of the number of confused individuals that believe that they are "Jesus" and seen the organised Christian response to this (medication) so the likelihood of the real "Christ" Identifying himself to any religion in real time would be rather slim.

I personally suspect that saving the Planet from humanities stupidity would be Christs first goal in serving God- "This would require a new form of Government"... if not the solution then I am open to being impressed- are there any other thoughts on another possible methodology for saving the environment for Life that God provided

I see concepts of ownership as being the biggest hurdle - but couldn't find anywhere in the bible where ownership was transferred to the occupants- be it the family of mankind or the other families- all of which are Gods Creations- "Domain over" does not suggest or confer Disposition but rather highlights the difference between Stewardship and Ownership- one of these concepts does not include Disposition...

Come on folk enlighten me- Where are religions going? over and over the same ground year after year? what is new on the horizon- communications have evolved in the last few years- from this we can grow (am I wrong?).

[Adstar]

Good to see you back Adstar- get your leg pulled too often and you will limp- I reckon

And what do you mean by this?

I suspect we went way off topic when I suggested that waiting for a divine being to clean up our mess amounted to a form of apathy- finding reasons to support apathy within scripture is not a new fallibility of our species so- we gained nothing there probably and simply moved our conversation to la la land

Most of the items in your post were already haggled but you did ask this question

Or do you take joy in others misfortune?

I had several hundred sheep about twenty years ago and they actually enjoyed being fleeced- so I was pulling your leg from a farmers point of view-

I still don't understand. Where did you pull my leg?

I gave up farming because it became clear that the other species of animal were intelligent beings with a sense of family- they were able to organise themselves elaborate defenses and displayed that they had codes of acceptable behavior within their family grouping- more important than measuring their worth by their intelligence I measured their worth by their ability to love each other- and failed as a farmer when I became reluctant to place a monetary value upon life for the purpose of death- bit like 30 pieces of silver only worse

So you believe animals a human beings in fur. I understand a lot of people brought up in cities and brain washed by TV would come to that conclusion but i find it interesting that a farmer who lives his life around animals would ever come to it. Where you born into a farmer family or are you a hobby farmer?

So It became harder and harder for me to send them off to the works and I soon came to the conclusion that one of those "Ten Commandments" was clearly misinterpreted throughout Christianity to suit an appetite for the flesh of the dead-

What one?

It further occurred to me that god did not put the boundaries up that we place between ourselves that we can call man neighbour- it was man that did that-

What? Calling someone a neighbour was never designed as a way of putting a border between people. Neighbour is not like the word Foreigner.

Some of the other Animals are better behaved than our species and it became impossible for me to justify being a farmer as it is a cruel and unnecessary practice which only served "Lord Buck" and blinds Good people from examining reality rather than simply accepting the reality tendered.

Does not have to be cruel. Good farming practice can prevent cruelty to animals.

Anyway why are we taking about farming and animals anyway?

You mention the Holy Spirit

The Body of Christ is unified. But what people call Christianity includes a lot of people who are not of the Body of Christ. Unity is assured among those lead by the Holy Spirit. And the true "Church" is made up of people Lead by the Holy Spirit. Just because that Church seems invisible to you, does not mean that church does not exist.

Firstly I wonder if you are sure that it is the Holy spirit actually leading this church you are describing or simply a few cynical chaps that like a wee dram on the quiet-

Please speak in common terms it aids in clear communications. "wee dram" means absolutely nothing to me.

If the leaders were genuine they would be able to explain just where they are leading you but if not- they will just keep you waiting for God to clean up while they have their sausages with a Wee dram- (hardly needs leadership)

What are you rambling on about? Could you please make a point, that i can reply to.

I hate crime and corruption also. I hate it with a passion. And i am supremely confident that my God is going to put it to an end once and for all. I live with real Hope.

People who think they can achieve it by their actions and efforts are self deluded. They have no real hope. History is littered with bitter old men who died angry, who once where idealistic young men who where fooled into believing that they could change the world. But where only used as pawns in the elites sick game.

As individuals there is little that could be achieved even with a good plan- it would take one man more than a lifetime to build a skyscraper single handed and would seem impossible if he had to manufacture all the materials to do so- but teams working to achieve the goals have proved that what would seem impossible for one man can be achieved by many sharing the same goal- there are heaps of skyscrapers

Where not talking about skyscrapers we are talking about a utopia on earth. Yeah societies can build skyscrapers many thousands have been build but no utopia has ever been built.

These teams are builders and they achieve- waiting for God to clean up our mess doesn't require a church or an architect just a comfortable chair - (a Wee tithe would help get the comfortable seat and a lamb roast to go with the Wee dram though- nothing new there)

? Youre rambling again.

ALL PRAISE GOD- ABOVE "The fallibility of the Ancient Days"

Well clear mockery of the God of Abraham here. What can i say... Pathetic seems to be the appropriate word.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Pathetic it is to seek a comfortable place in which to consummate apathy- while consuming sausages and that Wee dram- or perhaps pathetic is contributing to it and/or defending it.

If you want to mock some more please do it in pain English that people can understand. At lest then i will get a laugh.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days



.

[Frankly]

So you believe animals a human beings in fur. I understand a lot of people brought up in cities and brain washed by TV would come to that conclusion but i find it interesting that a farmer who lives his life around animals would ever come to it. Where you born into a farmer family or are you a hobby farmer?

What an interesting twist- do you shave off your fur to be pretentious? but yes I do believe humans are animals -some with fur - the other animals (our neighbors) don't usually need the same things as us- they come ready dressed, don't need sex education, are usually less hostile than humans and don't need to go to the shops to get a feed- (I could go on)
So- to your question regarding Commandments "What one"- love thy neighbor- by human animals putting a fence between human animals so that one or the other is a neighbor instead of a member of the same family(species) that commandment now would seem to have a distorted interpretation- as I pointed out- it was not God that put that fence up-

I read on and find you are now confused about foreigners being considered as family - well there we have just another fence put up by man-

What? Calling someone a neighbour was never designed as a way of putting a border between people. Neighbour is not like the word Foreigner.

"Property Law" usually determines that there are boundaries and sets out where those boundaries are placed- Borders are no different.


Although it is entirely irrelevant- I did come from a farming background and there was even a family operated slaughter house and butchery
Why my background would make a difference to an observable Truth is somewhat perplexing though

Some of the other Animals are better behaved than our species and it became impossible for me to justify being a farmer as it is a cruel and unnecessary practice which only served "Lord Buck" and blinds Good people from examining reality rather than simply accepting the reality tendered.

Does not have to be cruel. Good farming practice can prevent cruelty to animals.

Anyway why are we taking about farming and animals anyway?

If your babies were taken off you and sent to be slaughtered it would be a good farming practice? - Is a death Culture not cruel?- Can the victims plea their own cause?

This thread is about a prophecy relating to the lawless days and we are "Animals" you may see that as a bad thing or a good thing and there are some that would split straws and refer to mammals- but this will not really do other than create a silly irrelevant side issue-

The Body of Christ is unified. But what people call Christianity includes a lot of people who are not of the Body of Christ. Unity is assured among those lead by the Holy Spirit. And the true "Church" is made up of people Lead by the Holy Spirit. Just because that Church seems invisible to you, does not mean that church does not exist.

Firstly I wonder if you are sure that it is the Holy spirit actually leading this church you are describing or simply a few cynical chaps that like a wee dram on the quiet-

Please speak in common terms it aids in clear communications. "wee dram" means absolutely nothing to me.

Wee as in small and Dram (unit), an imperial unit of mass and volume
So Wee Dram was a rather old fashioned way of saying "Hitting the bottle" my understanding of Dram is that it referred to Spirits rather than beer or wine

If the leaders were genuine they would be able to explain just where they are leading you but if not- they will just keep you waiting for God to clean up while they have their sausages with a Wee dram- (hardly needs leadership)

What are you rambling on about? Could you please make a point, that i can reply to.

If the (intoxicated?)cynical leaders of- "And the true "Church" is made up of people Lead by the Holy Spirit." - were genuine they would be able to explain just where they are leading you but if not- they will just keep you waiting for God to clean up- you don't need leadership for that just a bottle of spirits and a comfy chair- is that clearer?

I hate crime and corruption also. I hate it with a passion. And i am supremely confident that my God is going to put it to an end once and for all. I live with real Hope.

People who think they can achieve it by their actions and efforts are self deluded. They have no real hope. History is littered with bitter old men who died angry, who once where idealistic young men who where fooled into believing that they could change the world. But where only used as pawns in the elites sick game.

As individuals there is little that could be achieved even with a good plan- it would take one man more than a lifetime to build a skyscraper single handed and would seem impossible if he had to manufacture all the materials to do so- but teams working to achieve the goals have proved that what would seem impossible for one man can be achieved by many sharing the same goal- there are heaps of skyscrapers

Where not talking about skyscrapers we are talking about a utopia on earth. Yeah societies can build skyscrapers many thousands have been build but no utopia has ever been built.

I believe that you are the one that refers to utopia- you made this statement- "People who think they can achieve it by their actions and efforts are self deluded" and so I pointed out an example whereby team efforts achieve results apathetic individuals would probably find hard to digest.- Lawless days and utopia should not be confused as the two words have no resemblance- are you hitting the bottle?

ALL PRAISE GOD- ABOVE "The fallibility of the Ancient Days"

Well clear mockery of the God of Abraham here. What can i say... Pathetic seems to be the appropriate word.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Pathetic it is to seek a comfortable place in which to consummate apathy- while consuming sausages and that Wee dram- or perhaps pathetic is contributing to it and/or defending it.

If you want to mock some more please do it in pain English that people can understand. At lest then i will get a laugh.

Ha ha You find English a pain eh- some find the truth a pain so you are probably in good company

.

[Adstar]

So you believe animals a human beings in fur. I understand a lot of people brought up in cities and brain washed by TV would come to that conclusion but i find it interesting that a farmer who lives his life around animals would ever come to it. Where you born into a farmer family or are you a hobby farmer?

What an interesting twist- do you shave off your fur to be pretentious? but yes I do believe humans are animals -some with fur - the other animals (our neighbors) don't usually need the same things as us- they come ready dressed, don't need sex education, are usually less hostile than humans and don't need to go to the shops to get a feed- (I could go on)
So- to your question regarding Commandments "What one"- love thy neighbor- by human animals putting a fence between human animals so that one or the other is a neighbor instead of a member of the same family(species) that commandment now would seem to have a distorted interpretation- as I pointed out- it was not God that put that fence up-

I read on and find you are now confused about foreigners being considered as family - well there we have just another fence put up by man-

What? Calling someone a neighbour was never designed as a way of putting a border between people. Neighbour is not like the word Foreigner.

"Property Law" usually determines that there are boundaries and sets out where those boundaries are placed- Borders are no different.


Although it is entirely irrelevant- I did come from a farming background and there was even a family operated slaughter house and butchery
Why my background would make a difference to an observable Truth is somewhat perplexing though

Some of the other Animals are better behaved than our species and it became impossible for me to justify being a farmer as it is a cruel and unnecessary practice which only served "Lord Buck" and blinds Good people from examining reality rather than simply accepting the reality tendered.

Does not have to be cruel. Good farming practice can prevent cruelty to animals.

Anyway why are we taking about farming and animals anyway?

If your babies were taken off you and sent to be slaughtered it would be a good farming practice? - Is a death Culture not cruel?- Can the victims plea their own cause?

This thread is about a prophecy relating to the lawless days and we are "Animals" you may see that as a bad thing or a good thing and there are some that would split straws and refer to mammals- but this will not really do other than create a silly irrelevant side issue-
.

Yes lets drop this line. I find your thinking very strange. I am used to anti-christianity types being of the athiest scientific mode. You know scientists, the ones who carry out often cruel animal experimentation on a large scale all over the world. But youre in your own group i guess.

The Body of Christ is unified. But what people call Christianity includes a lot of people who are not of the Body of Christ. Unity is assured among those lead by the Holy Spirit. And the true "Church" is made up of people Lead by the Holy Spirit. Just because that Church seems invisible to you, does not mean that church does not exist.

Firstly I wonder if you are sure that it is the Holy spirit actually leading this church you are describing or simply a few cynical chaps that like a wee dram on the quiet-

Please speak in common terms it aids in clear communications. "wee dram" means absolutely nothing to me.

Wee as in small and Dram (unit), an imperial unit of mass and volume
So Wee Dram was a rather old fashioned way of saying "Hitting the bottle" my understanding of Dram is that it referred to Spirits rather than beer or wine

Ohhh so... you think, maybe Christians are all spirit drinkers? The last time i had a alcoholic drink was probably about 2 years ago. If i remember rightly it was an Irish baileys cream. I am 45 years old and i think i have had less then 10 alcoholic drinks in my life.

If the leaders were genuine they would be able to explain just where they are leading you but if not- they will just keep you waiting for God to clean up while they have their sausages with a Wee dram- (hardly needs leadership)

What are you rambling on about? Could you please make a point, that i can reply to.

If the (intoxicated?)cynical leaders of- "And the true "Church" is made up of people Lead by the Holy Spirit." - were genuine they would be able to explain just where they are leading you but if not- they will just keep you waiting for God to clean up- you don't need leadership for that just a bottle of spirits and a comfy chair- is that clearer?

Ohhhh. I see. You think i have been taught all this from "church/denomination human leaders? No i read the bible and through reading the scriptures i came to this belief. Quite independently of any other Christian. And i see now how youre equating the Holy Spirit with Alcoholic spirit. Like alcoholic spirits make you drunk and i guess brain damaged, Soooo the Holy Spirit has a similar effect???

Let me strongly advise you ( if you have any.. even a little belief that God Might exist.. ) it is not good to start mocking the Holy Spirit. Better to confine that kind of game ( if your heart delights in it) to God and Jesus and those who believe in Him. Be careful what games you play with the Holy Spirit.

I hate crime and corruption also. I hate it with a passion. And i am supremely confident that my God is going to put it to an end once and for all. I live with real Hope.

People who think they can achieve it by their actions and efforts are self deluded. They have no real hope. History is littered with bitter old men who died angry, who once where idealistic young men who where fooled into believing that they could change the world. But where only used as pawns in the elites sick game.

As individuals there is little that could be achieved even with a good plan- it would take one man more than a lifetime to build a skyscraper single handed and would seem impossible if he had to manufacture all the materials to do so- but teams working to achieve the goals have proved that what would seem impossible for one man can be achieved by many sharing the same goal- there are heaps of skyscrapers

Where not talking about skyscrapers we are talking about a utopia on earth. Yeah societies can build skyscrapers many thousands have been build but no utopia has ever been built.

I believe that you are the one that refers to utopia- you made this statement- "People who think they can achieve it by their actions and efforts are self deluded" and so I pointed out an example whereby team efforts achieve results apathetic individuals would probably find hard to digest.-

No i am not hitting the bottle, As i have already explained before. The topic of utopia came up before. But anyway Christians believe that the Utopia will be established by God. Not by man. You referred to skyscrapers as an example of men building a great thing. I then replied that great things are not the same as a Utopia.

Lawless days and utopia should not be confused as the two words have no resemblance- are you hitting the bottle?

When did i say Utopia and lawless days where the same? Please quote where i did confuse the two?

ALL PRAISE GOD- ABOVE "The fallibility of the Ancient Days"

Well clear mockery of the God of Abraham here. What can i say... Pathetic seems to be the appropriate word.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Pathetic it is to seek a comfortable place in which to consummate apathy- while consuming sausages and that Wee dram- or perhaps pathetic is contributing to it and/or defending it.

And what truth have you revealed in this exchange? I only see the pride of man and boring attempts at mockery. Like i have not heard it all before.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 51:

Good farming practice can prevent cruelty to animals.

I'd be curious to know if anyone has asked their animals about whether getting killed and eaten is cruel or not.

[Slopeshoulder]

From Post 51:

Good farming practice can prevent cruelty to animals.

I'd be curious to know if anyone has asked their animals about whether getting killed and eaten is cruel or not.

It's worth noting that in several non-christian religions, this topic is taken seriously. African animists aplogize to the animal before the kill it for food, and native americans (i.e. lakota) make a sacred ritual out of the seasonal hunt. There have been many other examples in pagan and (I think) eastern religions.

Interestingly, within christianity (and by this I mean people who 1. actually consult to other christians and 2. value scholarship and 3. look to secular science and philosophy, not people who read the bible all by themselves and dismiss anything other than the book and their isoloated ego's reaction to it as "man made," as for example Adstar descibes himself doing), there is an increasingly robust environmental and animal-rights movement, discourse, and inquiry. And this includes many evangelicals. The old dominion model is dying, being replaced with a stewardship model.

In my professional life, I recently interviewed some of these theologians and a bunch of secular environmental leaders (including emmy award winning documentarians, famous mountain climbers, TED speakers, environmental award winners, national geographic lifetime achievement winners, sierra and greenpiece board members, award winning earth-and-animal-friendly designers of products we all know, CEO's, MIT-based systems thinkers, architects, multiple best selling writers, people called environmental "icons," presidential advisors, and WWF senior staff) and it's real, and a powerful point of convergence for secular and religious people who care about such things. Christians had been bringing up the rear, but that's changing.
(I'm not at liberty to name names, or to name the client).

As usual, it's more complex.

[Frankly]

From Post 51:

Good farming practice can prevent cruelty to animals.

I'd be curious to know if anyone has asked their animals about whether getting killed and eaten is cruel or not.

It's worth noting that in several non-christian religions, this topic is taken seriously. African animists aplogize to the animal before the kill it for food, and native americans (i.e. lakota) make a sacred ritual out of the seasonal hunt. There have been many other examples in pagan and (I think) eastern religions.

Interestingly, within christianity (and by this I mean people who 1. actually consult to other christians and 2. value scholarship and 3. look to secular science and philosophy, not people who read the bible all by themselves and dismiss anything other than the book and their isoloated ego's reaction to it as "man made," as for example Adstar descibes himself doing), there is an increasingly robust environmental and animal-rights movement, discourse, and inquiry. And this includes many evangelicals. The old dominion model is dying, being replaced with a stewardship model.

In my professional life, I recently interviewed some of these theologians and a bunch of secular environmental leaders (including emmy award winning documentarians, famous mountain climbers, TED speakers, environmental award winners, national geographic lifetime achievement winners, sierra and greenpiece board members, award winning earth-and-animal-friendly designers of products we all know, CEO's, MIT-based systems thinkers, architects, multiple best selling writers, people called environmental "icons," presidential advisors, and WWF senior staff) and it's real, and a powerful point of convergence for secular and religious people who care about such things. Christians had been bringing up the rear, but that's changing.
(I'm not at liberty to name names, or to name the client).

As usual, it's more complex.

Another interesting addition to this would be the connection made by researchers into Violent Crime-
Children that are cruel to animals are more likely (as they grow) to escalate their activities to violence to their own species- One doesn't really need to study Social psychology to connect the dots there- I suspect the research has only just scratched the surface

I am so pleased you posted your comments- I was beginning to feel a bit like a voice from the wilderness-

Any general discussion which drifts toward discussion on Utopia- would need to reflect on the part that the other creatures play in their concept of reality - the concept of Stewardship is certainly the most attractive as it also eliminates the Concept of Ownership from the equation -

Without making consideration for the other animals "Apathy" towards their plight would eliminate the possibility of a credible utopia - I personally feel that no killing field (death culture) is justified - and certainly an appetite for portions of a corpse never was an indication of respect for, or love of Life- It could actually be seen as being extremely Primitive in origin

[/quote]
I'd be curious to know if anyone has asked their animals about whether getting killed and eaten is cruel or not.[/quote]

This question is not a difficult question at all- It relates to communication
If one wanted an answer in the language the question was asked it would be an indication of total ignorance- If one however considered that there is a variety of forms of communication including sign language within ones own species- then the question becomes a little less silly- if you didn't know how to read sign language you would consider the person answering you might not know the answer but has some cool hand movements.

Learning new forms of Communication requires a great deal of commitment and Consideration (Compassion would also help)- If I stated that one can communicate with other species the ignorant would throw garbage at me or want to know who I am to do so more personally- so believing this to be an intelligent manner to resolve their failure to accommodate new (or old) concepts that were not included in their culture- or understanding of reality

The other Animals know fear, feel pain (including the pain of losing a family member), openly express affection both within their own families and to us- they trust and forgive (sometimes)and have individual personalities-I could go on and on here with a multitude of observations but needn't.

If this answer is not enough to suggest that communication is feasible- Then consider Victims of war- (that can openly express their feelings about whether getting killed and buried is cruel or not)- How many would it take to stop that culture of violence and death?

This is not a Nice World at all- made worse by arrogant/ignorance - real hope for an intelligent future is supported by all those you have mentioned and yourself "slopeshoulder" I believe that God and/or the Holy Spirit will be more likely to be found near your (or those associates you mentioned) camp - the pursuit of knowledge (intelligent) usually has its own rewards though-

Cheers



.

[McCulloch]

Moderator Warning
Please review our Rules.

are you hitting the bottle?

It is rather uncivil to imply that another debater's excessive drinking explains the content of his argument.

______________

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[Frankly]

So you believe animals a human beings in fur. I understand a lot of people brought up in cities and brain washed by TV would come to that conclusion but i find it interesting that a farmer who lives his life around animals would ever come to it. Where you born into a farmer family or are you a hobby farmer?

What an interesting twist- do you shave off your fur to be pretentious? but yes I do believe humans are animals -some with fur - the other animals (our neighbors) don't usually need the same things as us- they come ready dressed, don't need sex education, are usually less hostile than humans and don't need to go to the shops to get a feed- (I could go on)
So- to your question regarding Commandments "What one"- love thy neighbor- by human animals putting a fence between human animals so that one or the other is a neighbor instead of a member of the same family(species) that commandment now would seem to have a distorted interpretation- as I pointed out- it was not God that put that fence up-

I read on and find you are now confused about foreigners being considered as family - well there we have just another fence put up by man-

What? Calling someone a neighbour was never designed as a way of putting a border between people. Neighbour is not like the word Foreigner.

"Property Law" usually determines that there are boundaries and sets out where those boundaries are placed- Borders are no different.


Although it is entirely irrelevant- I did come from a farming background and there was even a family operated slaughter house and butchery
Why my background would make a difference to an observable Truth is somewhat perplexing though

Some of the other Animals are better behaved than our species and it became impossible for me to justify being a farmer as it is a cruel and unnecessary practice which only served "Lord Buck" and blinds Good people from examining reality rather than simply accepting the reality tendered.

Does not have to be cruel. Good farming practice can prevent cruelty to animals.

Anyway why are we taking about farming and animals anyway?

If your babies were taken off you and sent to be slaughtered it would be a good farming practice? - Is a death Culture not cruel?- Can the victims plea their own cause?

This thread is about a prophecy relating to the lawless days and we are "Animals" you may see that as a bad thing or a good thing and there are some that would split straws and refer to mammals- but this will not really do other than create a silly irrelevant side issue-
.

Yes lets drop this line. I find your thinking very strange. I am used to anti-christianity types being of the athiest scientific mode. You know scientists, the ones who carry out often cruel animal experimentation on a large scale all over the world. But youre in your own group i guess.

The Body of Christ is unified. But what people call Christianity includes a lot of people who are not of the Body of Christ. Unity is assured among those lead by the Holy Spirit. And the true "Church" is made up of people Lead by the Holy Spirit. Just because that Church seems invisible to you, does not mean that church does not exist.

Firstly I wonder if you are sure that it is the Holy spirit actually leading this church you are describing or simply a few cynical chaps that like a wee dram on the quiet-

Please speak in common terms it aids in clear communications. "wee dram" means absolutely nothing to me.

Wee as in small and Dram (unit), an imperial unit of mass and volume
So Wee Dram was a rather old fashioned way of saying "Hitting the bottle" my understanding of Dram is that it referred to Spirits rather than beer or wine

Ohhh so... you think, maybe Christians are all spirit drinkers? The last time i had a alcoholic drink was probably about 2 years ago. If i remember rightly it was an Irish baileys cream. I am 45 years old and i think i have had less then 10 alcoholic drinks in my life.

If the leaders were genuine they would be able to explain just where they are leading you but if not- they will just keep you waiting for God to clean up while they have their sausages with a Wee dram- (hardly needs leadership)

What are you rambling on about? Could you please make a point, that i can reply to.

If the (intoxicated?)cynical leaders of- "And the true "Church" is made up of people Lead by the Holy Spirit." - were genuine they would be able to explain just where they are leading you but if not- they will just keep you waiting for God to clean up- you don't need leadership for that just a bottle of spirits and a comfy chair- is that clearer?

Ohhhh. I see. You think i have been taught all this from "church/denomination human leaders? No i read the bible and through reading the scriptures i came to this belief. Quite independently of any other Christian. And i see now how youre equating the Holy Spirit with Alcoholic spirit. Like alcoholic spirits make you drunk and i guess brain damaged, Soooo the Holy Spirit has a similar effect???

Let me strongly advise you ( if you have any.. even a little belief that God Might exist.. ) it is not good to start mocking the Holy Spirit. Better to confine that kind of game ( if your heart delights in it) to God and Jesus and those who believe in Him. Be careful what games you play with the Holy Spirit.

I hate crime and corruption also. I hate it with a passion. And i am supremely confident that my God is going to put it to an end once and for all. I live with real Hope.

People who think they can achieve it by their actions and efforts are self deluded. They have no real hope. History is littered with bitter old men who died angry, who once where idealistic young men who where fooled into believing that they could change the world. But where only used as pawns in the elites sick game.

As individuals there is little that could be achieved even with a good plan- it would take one man more than a lifetime to build a skyscraper single handed and would seem impossible if he had to manufacture all the materials to do so- but teams working to achieve the goals have proved that what would seem impossible for one man can be achieved by many sharing the same goal- there are heaps of skyscrapers

Where not talking about skyscrapers we are talking about a utopia on earth. Yeah societies can build skyscrapers many thousands have been build but no utopia has ever been built.

I believe that you are the one that refers to utopia- you made this statement- "People who think they can achieve it by their actions and efforts are self deluded" and so I pointed out an example whereby team efforts achieve results apathetic individuals would probably find hard to digest.-

No i am not hitting the bottle, As i have already explained before. The topic of utopia came up before. But anyway Christians believe that the Utopia will be established by God. Not by man. You referred to skyscrapers as an example of men building a great thing. I then replied that great things are not the same as a Utopia.

Lawless days and utopia should not be confused as the two words have no resemblance- are you hitting the bottle?

When did i say Utopia and lawless days where the same? Please quote where i did confuse the two?

ALL PRAISE GOD- ABOVE "The fallibility of the Ancient Days"

Well clear mockery of the God of Abraham here. What can i say... Pathetic seems to be the appropriate word.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Pathetic it is to seek a comfortable place in which to consummate apathy- while consuming sausages and that Wee dram- or perhaps pathetic is contributing to it and/or defending it.

And what truth have you revealed in this exchange? I only see the pride of man and boring attempts at mockery. Like i have not heard it all before.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I have been having a little trouble formulating a response to your remarks Adstar and have decided that the likely reason for our poor communications must surely be linked to the Strong possibility that English is a second language for you

From the beginning of your debate/conversation you attributed meanings to clearly worded sentences or words that were not offered.
You Generalised when remarks were made that were clearly specific and you failed to identify metaphor's as being such.

As the Bible itself is loaded with metaphor's I can only imagine the problems you must continue to face (seemingly not alone) in understanding this piece of work.

Further (as I recall)your earlier posts suggested that you had a somewhat exclusive relationship to the spirit of Christ- on this post you seem to believe that you are now in a position to make warnings regarding reference to the Holy Spirit- while I am not in a position to doubt the possibility that you may have had some association with the Holy Spirit- I am also not in a position that I would likely give your comments the credibility of actually having had first hand knowledge of association- perhaps you should review the comments made which engendered your warning and reflect upon the "actual" rather than assumed target for my remarks.

Further you have made a number of presumptions without elaborating upon why you have reached specific conclusions- For example you have implied that I am an Atheist which to me is a nonsense term relating to ones beliefs- I see this "term of reference" as being remarkably stupid in that if one "Knows" there is a God and "knows" that there is a Holy Spirit then they no longer need to "believe" that God or the Holy Spirit are real- rather like knowing a house is painted a specific colour while others are standing around discussing their beliefs as to if the house is painted a specific colour, painted at all or if the house exists- (Hardly worth entering that debate unless one is bored or playful).

You have asked that I use plain English as you have become confused by the use of English language words that can be found in any English Dictionary or online- Confused enough to make allegations of rambling.

I am not actually sure that you have a point to make in connection with the initial thread- it is not apparent- you have indicated however a stance that would be hard to misinterpret as other than apathetic.

I should probably address the comment made about "hitting the bottle" and now state that in questioning the possibility that you may have been hitting the bottle I had no intention of implying that your alcohol consumption was excessive [it was you that initially chose to be included in my reference to alcohol consumption (a reference that was not directed at you)].
That this question was later directed at you

are you hitting the bottle?

without consideration for the possibility that English is likely a second language to you.-It was probably quite improper of me just as your suggesting ["you think, maybe Christians are all spirit drinkers?"] as to what you attribute that comment- I have no idea as with

- And i see now how youre equating the Holy Spirit with Alcoholic spirit. Like alcoholic spirits make you drunk and i guess brain damaged, Soooo the Holy Spirit has a similar effect???

You appear to have a tenancy of finding words or meanings in unrepresented clear English wording and run with it rather than examining it to see if your assumption has merit.

I note that you did not make the same presumptive generalisation about all Christians being apathetic when I pointed out that you appear to be simply waiting for god to clean up Mankind's messes so I can presume that you do have some understanding of the concept of generalisation (unlike some others) so congratulations

I hope I have covered all your significant points- however I suggest that we are now able to return to the "essence" of the thread posted - nice little chat there adstar - in learning English it pays to learn to have with it, a sense of humour there is a term "Lighten up" which is also intended to help people get over a "heavy heart" or bitterness- while just a pleasant smile can "light up a room"- with cheers

[Adstar]

I take discussions on God very seriously. So don't tell me to "lighten up" I will not be lightening up. It's good that you are now speaking in plain English. Instead of putting on your bony Scot lampoon act. And don't try to say you where misunderstood with your Holy Spirit = Hard alcoholic spirits comparisons. You where attempting to be smart with both pathetic lines.

And again trusting in God to come and clean up the mess is Not equal to apathy.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Frankly]

I take discussions on God very seriously. So don't tell me to "lighten up" I will not be lightening up. It's good that you are now speaking in plain English. Instead of putting on your bony Scot lampoon act. And don't try to say you where misunderstood with your Holy Spirit = Hard alcoholic spirits comparisons. You where attempting to be smart with both pathetic lines.

And again trusting in God to come and clean up the mess is Not equal to apathy.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I see that you would like to remain off topic and enter into a personal conflict or discuss yourself- but frankly your comments have become boring so I will liven things up to suit your taste for off topic hair pulling

Definition of Fiery Pitts of Hell
A Government employee gets the sack-
"Oh Hell" - "Ive been fired" -"that's the Pitts"

You might like to get puffed up about that as well?

I still maintain that waiting for God to clean up our messes is like having a 10 year old child waiting for daddy to wipe his bottom (this couldn't apply to you though as you have stated that you are 45 not 10)-

I suspect that a more Noble cause than waiting for God would be to serve God- a little hard to do if you only want to wait but each to her/his own free will on that one.

What do you reckon Jesus would think about having lots of different churches (tithing his followers?) fighting over which church is right and which church is wrong and even killing in his name? was he a warlord?- there you go adstar food for thought-
And how about that Mass ritual some of them practice- is that not a primitive cannibal culture derivative -where followers get a Wee bit of blood and flesh?- almost like a metaphor icky event?

Ah well enough Culture for today - good luck with your waiting- do waiters get payed? if so- in which current see

There are none so blind as those that cannot see.