The elephant(s) in the room with us

[The Duke of Vandals]

Let's talk about what Christians don't want to talk about.

• Let's talk about the fact the early church had a vested interest in perpetuating the myth of Christ.
• Let's talk about the fact the things Jesus allegedly does are absurd, ridiculous, completely impossible and wouldn't be taken seriously in the slightest without heavy indoctrination (usually from birth, but sometimes from times of emotional stress).
• Let's talk about the fact Christians are indoctrinated to associate positive experiences with god and delude themselves into thinking they can "feel" Jesus.
• Most of all, let's talk about the fact humans... even intelligent humans... can be easily tricked. There are Ph.D.'s and captains of industry who, in spite of massive intellects, are still duped by con men. The entire mormon religion was started by a con man and now boasts millions of members worldwide without ever having a scrap of truth to it.

Without fail, these issues get tiptoed around in debate.

We're supposed to treat the obviously impossible claims of the gospel as though they're perfectly possible things... as common as the names of ancient places. "There were Egyptians and Hebrews... why not a red sea parting?" As though anything written down in an old book and claimed as true should be taken that way? We should believe it because some scholar has convinced you the author believed it?

Christians, you're too smart to be this stupid. I have tremendous respect for your intellect. You are the victims of a 1600+ year old con and here. There's absolutely no reason for 21st century intellectuals to be slaves to bronze age idiocy and second century propaganda.

Topic for debate: amirite?

[Cephus]

That, is exactly what we have, in the Gospel documents, and the letters.

But the Gospels are neither independent, nor do they jive with objective, empirical data. No one in their right mind thinks that the Gospel writers, whoever they were, didn't copy from each other and there are no other completely independent accounts of the same stories from other writers. Further, there is no corroborating evidence from any other science that would support the miraculous things talked about in the Gospels.

The Gospels are myths.

We are talking about events and or objects, events being history, objects being history. The Bible undeniably exists also, the Bible contains an imprint of something, it does not matter if you believe it (Bible) or not.

The Vedas and the Qu'ran and the Enuma Elish undeniably exist too. Doesn't matter if you believe them. Did you have a point?

Cephus,
Did you see this?

Of course I did, I'm glad you've learned how to quote and waste database space.

[Easyrider]

That, is exactly what we have, in the Gospel documents, and the letters.

But the Gospels are neither independent...

Sure they are - four different authors writing years apart from one another in likely different locations.

nor do they jive with objective, empirical data.

I don't believe science has finished writing the book on all things observable.

No one in their right mind thinks that the Gospel writers, whoever they were, didn't copy from each other and there are no other completely independent accounts of the same stories from other writers.

No doubt they all discussed these common events from the time of Christ's resurrection on. Nothing wrong with that. But there's yet another source:

John 14:26 - "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

Further, there is no corroborating evidence from any other science that would support the miraculous things talked about in the Gospels.

Historical events are not replicable, so science is futile in that endeavor. You should know that.

The Gospels are myths.

That statement is a myth.