Are there any valid Biblical prophesies?

[McCulloch]

There are several ways in which a prediction of the future can be fulfilled, without invoking the supernatural:

1. The prophecy can be written or modified after the events fulfilling it have already occurred.
2. The prophecy can be worded in such a way that people can interpret any outcome as a fulfillment. Nostradomus's prophecies are all of this type. Vagueness works particularly well when people are religiously motivated to believe the prophecies.
3. The prophecy can predict something that is almost sure to happen, such as the collapse of a city. Since nothing lasts forever, the city is sure to fall someday. If it has not, it can be said that according to prophecy, it will.
4. One can claim that the fulfilling events occurred even if they have not.
5. Self-fulfillment. A person can act deliberately to satisfy a known prophecy. Or the person recording the event alleged to have fulfilled the prophecy, knew the prophesy and altered or invented the record in order to fulfill it.

Are there any fulfilled prophecies in the Bible that cannot easily fit into one or more of those categories?

[Cathar1950]

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Are you using a trick definition of "die". I consulted many dictionaries and did not find reference to die meaning "become mortal". All definitions indicated "die" means to undergo death.

Why do you refer to Symmachus' translation? Is there some reason to prefer that translation (other than to “justify” an obscure definition)?

No trick...
"I am just dieing to see the Jonas brothers". "I died laughing at his great joke"
Very common statements. Do you really think "means to undergo death" is what is actually being implied? Naw, I don't think so. It's a figure of speech. By the way, I don't care to see the Jonas brothers. Got that from my 13 year old.. Anyway, back on track..

My source of the Genesis verse : "The Pentateuch and Haftorahs" Edited by JH Hertz. Great book.. explains from a hardcore judaism perspective. No Christology. I am a Christian. But to study the OT, I feel a judaism perspective is a must to include. I know my spots where I disagree.

I love Biblical prophesy. Don't you?

I see. Adam and Eve were dieing to get out of the garden and god died laughing at them. God didn't mean die -- he meant to become mortal -- sure -- that makes as much sense as anything else about the story -- including a talking snake and a "tree of knowledge".

Yes, biblical “prophesy” demonstrates that people are dieing to believe what they are told by "authority".

Just as many apologists 'die' in front of the audience while performing hermeneutic gymnastics.

Funny how the clarification of the true meaning of one little word can send atheists into a tailspin.
And whenever I see the "gymnastics" statement, I know my position has been affirmed. I am moving on to the prophecy Goat wanted me to look at.

It is funny how a word can mean one thing to one person and something other to someone else. The trick is to find a translation to mean what you want when you want as long as you maintain your spiritualized “true” meaning and you opinion on the validity of what you want the scriptures to say. The end is always my view of Jesus and God is right and any means is used to maintain that position.
It is a story, maybe it was or has served as an allegory but it seems most likely it was a story and goes back to an even earlier story or stories. The sons of Anu ring a bell. In an older story one god tells the hero not to eat the fruit or he will die when it is offered so he refuses and missing the chance at immortality. The Hebrew writers wanted us to see something else, maybe even a reason we all die. It doesn’t have to be right or even make sense, it is a story and it is the apologist that wants it to be something else and there is no end to the gymnastics they will perform including accusing others and thinking it is some sign they are correct.

[Revelations won]

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Judging by some comments it appears that some have searched very little to discover all the prophecy's contained in the bible, much less their fulfillment.

Does one seek to know the full details of a prophesy and or it's fulfillment for curiosity sake or for a deeper purpose?

Where does one find “the full details” of a one-sentence prophesy? Does one “interpret” what it “really means”?

It one were to show the details of a prophecy and it's subsequent fulfillment would you have faith to accept it or merely scoff at the results?

“Faith” would have nothing to do with my reaction. I would evaluate the EVIDENCE presented (and not the emotion).
I would evaluate whether the “prophesy” (a prediction of something to come) was clear and precise or whether it was vague and general. For example:

“It will rain here tomorrow” is clear and precise. The time, place and event are specified.

“There will come a big rain” and "The end is near" are vague and general. The time and place are not specified.

Number one is a valid “prophesy” (prediction). Number two is not valid because any rain in the future can be cited as “fulfillment of prophesy” and the meaning of "end is near" can be "interpreted" to mean nearly anything.

Some on this post have or at least appear to claim that there are no prophecies in the bible that have been fulfilled.

Can you list all of the unfulfilled prophesies contained therein?

A list of 238 unfulfilled “Prophecies, Promises, and Misquotes in the Bible” is presented at
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

Wikipedia presents a similar list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_prophecy

Not all presented are assured to be “unfulfilled prophesies” and many are excused or “interpreted” by Theists.

I guess I will have to look at and be amused with your skeptics web site reference.

Just one of the many fulfilled prophecies in the bible is found in genesis regarding Joseph who was sold into Egypt. Just thoughgt you might need a diversion from your intense skepticism diet.

[Goat]

I guess I will have to look at and be amused with your skeptics web site reference.

Just one of the many fulfilled prophecies in the bible is found in genesis regarding Joseph who was sold into Egypt. Just thoughgt you might need a diversion from your intense skepticism diet.

Any time you want to discuss any SPECIFIC prophecy you think is fulfullied I am sure either ZZ or I would be GLAD to go into detail with you.

[Cathar1950]

I guess I will have to look at and be amused with your skeptics web site reference.

Just one of the many fulfilled prophecies in the bible is found in genesis regarding Joseph who was sold into Egypt. Just thoughgt you might need a diversion from your intense skepticism diet.

Any time you want to discuss any SPECIFIC prophecy you think is fulfullied I am sure either ZZ or I would be GLAD to go into detail with you.

I would enjoy that too.
I am wondering what the so-called prophesy reguarding Joseph is suppose to be and how it is not just a part of the story.

[Zzyzx]

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It one were to show the details of a prophecy and it's subsequent fulfillment would you have faith to accept it or merely scoff at the results?

There are several people willing to debate specific "fulfilled prophesies". Your move.

When you discover that you cannot substantiate "fulfillment", will you dismiss that failure of "scriptures" with excuses or will you understand that you have believed something that is not true?

[catholic crusader]

Just one of the many fulfilled prophecies in the bible is found in genesis regarding Joseph who was sold into Egypt. Just thoughgt you might need a diversion from your intense skepticism diet.

This hasn't made me less skeptical yet.

Perhaps their is more to come.

[Revelations won]

Hi Goat and ZZ,

The following is one example:

Prophesy of Joseph who was sold into Egypt

Here is one example of a prophetic dreams given to Joseph a son of Jacob. In these dreams it was shown unto him that his brothers would bow and give obesience to him. These dreams were ill received by his brothers. Later Jacob sent Joseph to his brothers to gather information regarding the flocks, etc. They conspired to kill him first and then later were convinced to sell Joseph as a slave.

For brevity’s sake through a series of interum events Joseph was made governor over all the land of Egypt.

Genesis 37:3-11

3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours.
4
And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him.
5
And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.
6
And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
7
For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
8
And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
9
And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10
And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
11
And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.

The fulfillment of Joseph’s youthful prophetic dreams is found in the following chapters, wherein his brothers indeed gave obesance and bowed before Joseph, governor of Egypt.

Genesis chapter 42

42:5 And the sons of Israel came to buy corn among those that came: for the famine was in the land of Canaan.
6 And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.
7 And Joseph saw his brethren, and he knew them, but made himself strange unto them, and spake roughly unto them; and he said unto them, Whence come ye? And they said, From the land of Canaan to buy food.
8 And Joseph knew his brethren, but they knew not him.
9 And Joseph remembered the dreams which he dreamed of them,


Genesis chapter 44

44: 14 And Judah and his brethren came to Joseph's house; for he was yet there: and they fell before him on the ground.