FarWanderer wrote:
arian wrote:Theism and atheism as I said is also religious opposing beliefs, so don't think that will help you in this case. This is the reason one god is like all gods, it's all the same to you guys, and when I point out why that is, because of your religious POV, that you are interpreting the Bible and everything in there through a religious POV, and that you will never see or understand what I tell you unless you leave religion out of it. I mean read the comments, .. you guys/ladies cannot even imagine God being outside of religion. I mean you even admit it, yet I keep asking you not to use religious interpretations to what I tell you!?
I've read your stuff here for a while now, Arian, and as far as I know you have never even made the slightest attempt to explain how it is that the bible has anything to do with our (alleged) Creator.
Thank you again FarWanderer, and I see you noticed a few things, I am humbled that you would keep picking my brain on this very important subject, instead of the generalized comments I was getting used to.
Z asked me out to explain a comment I made in another post; "Undeniable scientific evidence of The Creator". I have come to a realization that if God is real, then He should be evidenced through science, and the Bible left completely out of it, .. right? Now I did hint on how my scientific evidence fits right in with the Bible, but it only did damage because of the thousands of years of public 'religious' indoctrination we all have been subjected to (me included, which I have to continually fight off) where the word 'Bible' is considered to mean = 'religion'
Why?
because it mentions the word 'God'.
Do other books like drama, action, fiction, non-fiction books mention the word 'God' and even talk about God in there? Yep, but hey (they tell me) but that's not religious. I mean how can you deal with that? When God is mentioned in one book it's religious, but in thousands of others it's not???
Once you (general you) can accept the fact that there IS a God, who happens to be real (can be proven through science) as our Creator (vs. other creators like the BB and Evolution theories), NOT made up by religion, you are on your way to understand what I'm saying.
Once someone can understand the scientific proof that I present, then I can show you how the Bible backs up 'everything' that I claim, and actually takes off where the stories in there come alive in an entirely
non-ridiculous religious or as Bill Maher would put it non "Religulous" way.
FarWanderer wrote:I am quite a fan of people like Thomas Paine or Baruch Spinoza who sought "God" on his (its) own terms rather than through some "holy book".
I would never in a million years claim to be even in the far shadows of the likes of Thomas Paine and Spinoza, .. or Tillich, .. lol, I did hear about them but had to look them up now that you mentioned the two. I mean these were educated and wise people of deep philosophy, the only association I could ever have had with these two are if I were a shoeshine boy and they happened to need a shine, where I could say: "Wow, I shined the shoes of Spinoza and Paine!" lol.
But without hesitation (from what I just read about them) I can tell you that neither one knew God our Creator as I know Him. Their philosophy was for/against a plethora of 'religious views' of Bible God, a Deity (demon), or plural gods, or triune gods, or a Cherubim, or any of the 40,000 religious concepts of God, which they thought and even believed was the actual one mentioned in the Bible. They were very wrong.
As I keep saying, it's easy to knock the religiously created gods, and even the God of the Bible if you believe He is as defined by religions. You can knock him any old way, like "Please explain how the bible God is One, yet three in one?" or "How come Christians do this yet preach that?" and so on. Well because the Christian Religions gods are NOT the God mentioned in the Bible.
Oh, and I keep mentioning that the Bible is NOT "some Holy Book", just because the religious folk wrote on it "Holy Bible" doesn't make it so. It's not infallible, it's not the 'Word of God' but the words of man, demons, the Devil, Angels and God. It's a book like others, only what it reveals in there, which takes an open mind to understand is, .. well "Beyond this world".
It's like an Indiana Jones treasure map, it may not look like anything important for the untrained eye, many would simply pass it by, .. but let Indy take a closer look at it and Wow! A map to unimaginable riches!
Now Religions do know it reveals unimaginable riches, and they advertise it so people will come to their church so they too could get some of the infinite treasures that they say can be found in there, but they ain't Indi, they have no idea how to find the real treasure because their heart is not right, so the treasure they offer is from their religion, which is fools gold at best. And when people will go to collect on it, cash it in, .. they will be very surprised and eternally disappointed!
I may even agree with Paine's and Spinoza's philosophy, same way as I agree with Bill Maher on his movie 'Religulous', that gods in religions are not real, and even agree that they are totally ridiculous. But never the less they do exist, just like Santa, Peter Pan and the rest of the fairytale heroes/villains, in the minds of religious folk.
What little I know of Tillich also gives me a positive impression.
Me too, as far as his remarks on God as "the ground of being itself". Other then that I didn't read his book on 'systematic theology', maybe one day I will?? But I don't feel a need to, my vision who God is is simple, it is scientific, and the Bible backs it up a 1000 + %, .. or should I say "throughout infinity", or the way you would understand "Infinitely".
FarWanderer wrote:In any case, "religious" is taking the bible as true without having an independent reason for why you should. Do you not do that?
Religions make their own truth from the Bible, which they expect their followers to accept on blind faith, which includes their own personally designed gods they made up!
You know why the religious put the words "Holy Bible" on the Little Books? So if you dare question it, (like; "hey, where the hell do you find that Jesus is God, or that there are really three or more gods, or Mary the Mother of God?") You are questioning Holiness. (remember they kept the sheep from having access to the actual Holy Books) Or how dare you question the Church whom they claim was established by God through Christ Himself (which they will point out right there in the Holy Book: "I have chosen you!") And remember that the Ministers are chosen by God too. So dare you question the Holy Father or any of his minions the priests? How dare you insist that they raped you as a child!?
This is what I believe and act on that belief with absolute certainty because my faith is built on evidence with substance, like in science, .. and NOT religion which requires blind faith.
Take care FarWanderer!
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