Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?

[Jashwell]

"Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?"

Doesn't seem like much preamble is needed, but expect this largely to be filled (if at all) with arguments in favour of the existence of a God and counter-arguments. (Because the question is not "Are there good reasons to believe that a god does not exist?"). Though if you do think you have a good argument that shows it is reasonable to believe God does not exist, that is also valid.

This question comes up a lot in other threads where various classical arguments (e.g. ontological, axiological, cosmological) have been given in those threads.

If possible, try not to shotgun debate by raising lots of arguments at once. One sound argument should be sufficient.

[Elijah John]

The irrefutable argument against infinite regress is that there are no valid examples of such, just as there are no valid examples of tooth fairies & of something coming from nothing.

Why not include God with tooth fairies? There are no 'valid examples' of either. As has been pointed out to you previously, you can't just define your way to God.

You might as well define tooth fairy: "That singular entity that represents the only valid example of something coming from nothing. Uh... and... uh... also he's the guy who leaves a coin under the pillow in exchange for a baby tooth and this is true because I say it is."

This is the essence of your arguments about god that, whatever you can't explain any other way, is god, and you will define him however you like in order to fit your argument.

Danmark, you seem to not fully understand logic. There are 2 ways to prove the existence of something:
1 To show it, or
2. To show the evidence of it.
Point 1 works for physical things, which means it doesn't work for God.
Point 2 works to show the existence of God as follows:
a. Since there is no evidence of something coming from nothing, we know that something always comes from something. The most obvious something is the universe.
b. Since the universe is the origin of the physical, the something that caused it must be non-physical.
c. God is the only credible non-physical entity that I'm aware of.
d. To ask about the origin of God leads to infinite regress, another item of which there is no evidence.
e. Therefore we logically deduce that the physical universe was caused by eternal non-physical God.
Hope this makes the logic clear.
All the best kenblogton

Moderator Comment

By using the word "seem" as a qualifier for the opening remark of your response, you are preventing this comment from being issued as a warning. Otherwise, your remark could easliy be taken as a personal attack, judgemental and a blanket statement.

Please review the Rules.


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Your qualifier of the word "seem" is the main thing that is preventing this comment from becoming a warning.

[Bust Nak]

I assume you are unable to answer the question: If God is not the answer to the origin of the universe, what is? If you have no better answer, then I guess that answer wins until a better one comes along.

Why would you assume such a thing when I've already give you the answer to that very question in the very post you are replying to? I gave you four alternatives:

Infinite regression,
Circular regression,
The big bang,
Super God.

Why did you crop out the rest of my post? I assume you are unable to refute my answer.

Again, I invite you to refute the following established truths re: the origins of the universe, point by point.

Done and done. Let me repeat it here for your convenience:

1. The dense singularity/big bang is the origin of the physical; prior, there is no space, time, matter or energy.

There is no "prior" the beginning of time. Just as there is no North of the North Pole.

2. The universe did not spontaneously arise; it had a cause.

Given the existence of events without any triggers, this premise is for you to prove.

3. Since the physical began with the dense singularity/big bang, the cause of the origin of the universe must be non-physical.

The cause of the origin of the universe is the Big bang. I suppose an entity without physical dimention is non-physical.

4. The only valid non-physical causal agent I'm aware of is God.

That is irrelevant.

As I've typically observed with our exchanges, we get to a point where I find you do not deal with my points, but rather avoid or go around them.

Don't talk of avoiding points when you've ignored most of my posts and when you do reply, you cropped out the majority of them.

[dukekenha]

Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?

God itself is good so there must be a good reason for being good. To go against good is bad so bad reasons comes to not believing there is a good reason. Are we eternal? The fact we are temporal gives reason to eternal. When did time begun? Does time have a beginning? The fact we don't know when time begun is the fact there is a God. For if we deny that there is a God we deny our existence.

[Danmark]

Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?

God itself is good so there must be a good reason for being good. To go against good is bad so bad reasons comes to not believing there is a good reason. Are we eternal? The fact we are temporal gives reason to eternal. When did time begun? Does time have a beginning? The fact we don't know when time begun is the fact there is a God. For if we deny that there is a God we deny our existence.

I'm sorry, but none of this makes sense to me. You start with an unsupported claim, that 'god exists' and is 'good.' Then you argue from this unsupported premise.
You follow with a sentence that makes no sense, grammatically or logically:

The fact we are temporal gives reason to eternal.

Are you claiming that because something is temporal, it is also eternal?
Isn't that like claiming that because something is white, it is also black?

You claim that since "we don't know when time begun [sic]" therefore God exists. Why is that? What is the basis for this claim, even assuming those experts, like Hawking, who claim time began with the big bang 13.7 billion years ago are wrong?

[Cephus]

Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?

God itself is good so there must be a good reason for being good. To go against good is bad so bad reasons comes to not believing there is a good reason. Are we eternal? The fact we are temporal gives reason to eternal. When did time begun? Does time have a beginning? The fact we don't know when time begun is the fact there is a God. For if we deny that there is a God we deny our existence.

I'm sorry, but none of this makes sense to me. You start with an unsupported claim, that 'god exists' and is 'good.' Then you argue from this unsupported premise.

The problem is, that's really all theists can do. They can only arbitrarily assign emotionally comforting characteristics to their deities because they can't actually present any evidence that shows said deities actually have those characteristics. They can't even present any evidence that shows said deities are real. Therefore, saying that God is "good" or "moral" or "all-knowing" is just made up nonsense. How do they know this? They might as well be claiming that God is a "one-eyed, one-horned, flying, purple people eater".

[dukekenha]

[Replying to post 553 by Danmark]

Sorry to have forgotten that there are people who denies God existence. The question goes “Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists? �

My answer is “YES� people long before technology like today started believe there is a God. The belief was passed from generation to generation until now. What I mean is that there are people like us before our time. Does Egypt accept the claim of the bible to have a pharaoh Ramses who reigned and enslaved the Israelite people and on the latter time they failed to ceased the people who revolt against them because they need to go to the promise land to praise God? If they do that would be an insult to pharaohs that the slave empowered by a God who they (Egypt) don’t believe in defeated and was killed at the end when the sea returned to its state. What do I want to point out here? There are people long before us denies Gods existence and they were proved wrong. Historians have claims that it happened and others the otherwise. But the descendents of these people is still with us so they claimed. Information was passed from generation to generation preserved using the best known technology before and that is by writings. There are wise people who believe that there is a God and I don’t mean the otherwise is not true. There are good people who believe in God and there are those good people who had not known a God and follow the goodness of their heart. Goodness comes from the heart unless you believe otherwise. People may say emotion is a factor of goodness but Christian calls this conscience. People may convince themselves that God may not exist but the fact it can’t be proven unless you deny it the otherwise remains strong.

Have you seen the start and the end? Or have anyone said that there is a start and where is the end? Assumptions? No one among us can say when, how, why everything started other than theory. That is because no one lived longer than what is still coming. That is because our life here is temporal. How does it give reason to eternal? When anyone dies others continue. Have you seen the end of the universe? I don’t think that even if you live long enough you will. Can you see bacteria with your naked eye without tools? Does it deny God seeing it with a tool? Or it just proves otherwise. Do you still believe everything is an accident? What are the shapes of the planets? Can an accident shape things perfectly and move in coordination without force? Was everything started by a movement? If then how was it initiated? Once a person die everything will rest and until it ends no one knows unless you believe that there is life beyond death. How long does a Giant sequoia tree live? Can life be that long? Do you have any horrific reason that God doesn’t exist? If then, bad things will happen beyond death unless the good reason happen beyond everyone’s nightmare (conflicts, famine, hunger, death). If ungodly assumption happens who are causing this nightmares? Are the ungodly people blaming God for it? It’s insane, blaming something to a God that is denied in existence. Then we are really in a very deep deep trouble. Who will care for the generation to come? Me? You? Anyone? Who will live long enough? Are we sure that tomorrow we’re still breathing? There are things has no assurance, things we cannot handle. Does it give a good reason to believe that God exist? My answer is YES and I’m sorry if for others is the other way around.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 553 by Danmark]

Sorry to have forgotten that there are people who denies God existence. The question goes “Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists? �

My answer is “YES� people long before technology like today started believe there is a God. The belief was passed from generation to generation until now. What I mean is that there are people like us before our time.

What you've written actually undermines your argument. Before people had the knowledge of how nature works they assumed a 'god' must be the cause of things. Lightning and thunder came from Zeus throwing thunderbolts. Now that we have a scientific understanding of the causes we previously attributed to our imaginary god, we no longer have reason to believe in this fiction. Since man was wrong about everything he attributed to his fictional God, isn't it logical to now abandon this primitive and unnecessary belief. Just because your ancient ancestor believed God made the Earth flat, is no reason to believe in either God, nor a flat earth today.

[kenblogton]

Replying to post 546 by kenblogton

1. Something that comes from no thing is something that does not come from any thing.

Does God come from a thing?
No? Then God comes from no thing.

2. I don't believe John Lennox has addressed anything, I haven't seen the movie but from what I remember of the Cambridge Union debate he didn't say anything new or impressive.

Reply to 1. God does not come from nothing or no thing. God did not come into existence. God is, and always was.

Reply to 2. Hawking in The Grand Design is quoted as saying "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing"
Professor Lennox uses a tautology (the saying of the same thing twice in different words) of Hawking's assertion to show its nonsense in paraphrasing it as follows:
"The universe exists because it needed to exist.
Because the universe needed to exist, therefore it created itself."
Lennox concludes his remarks by stating;
"Nonsense remains nonsense, even when spoken by a famous scientist."
kenblogton

[kenblogton]

Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?

God itself is good so there must be a good reason for being good. To go against good is bad so bad reasons comes to not believing there is a good reason. Are we eternal? The fact we are temporal gives reason to eternal. When did time begun? Does time have a beginning? The fact we don't know when time begun is the fact there is a God. For if we deny that there is a God we deny our existence.

I'm sorry, but none of this makes sense to me. You start with an unsupported claim, that 'god exists' and is 'good.' Then you argue from this unsupported premise.

The problem is, that's really all theists can do. They can only arbitrarily assign emotionally comforting characteristics to their deities because they can't actually present any evidence that shows said deities actually have those characteristics. They can't even present any evidence that shows said deities are real. Therefore, saying that God is "good" or "moral" or "all-knowing" is just made up nonsense. How do they know this? They might as well be claiming that God is a "one-eyed, one-horned, flying, purple people eater".

Atheists deny the existence of God yet are unable to provide either evidence or logical support for 2 pillars of their case:
Pillar 1. That something can come from nothing. Atheists can give NO examples of such, yet confidently assert its truth. If something always comes from something, then the physical universe came from something which must therefore be non-physical; enter God.
Pillar 2. That an infinite regress is possible. Atheists can give NO examples of such, yet confidently assert its truth. If there are no infinite regresses, then an always was God is logically possible, and, based on the caused by something existence of the physical universe, logically necessary.
kenblogton

[kenblogton]

[Replying to post 551 by Bust Nak]

kenblogton wrote:
I assume you are unable to answer the question: If God is not the answer to the origin of the universe, what is? If you have no better answer, then I guess that answer wins until a better one comes along.

Bust Nak said:
Why would you assume such a thing when I've already give you the answer to that very question in the very post you are replying to? I gave you four alternatives:
Bust Nak's 4 alternatives are
1. Infinite regression, to which kenblogton replied there is no such thing as an infinite regression; no atheist has been able to give me an example of one. To say "infinite regress" without an example is a hollow alternative.
2. Circular regression, to which kenblogton replied I'm don't know what a circular regression is, and neither does the Google universe; please explain your alternative.
3. The big bang, to which kenblogton replied the big bang is the beginning of the universe, it is not its cause.
4. Super God, to which kenblogton replied This is your most sensible alternative; I can support this one.

Bust Nak said:
Why did you crop out the rest of my post? I assume you are unable to refute my answer.

kenblogton replied: I couldn't follow or understand your reasoning.
kenblogton