Blaine.
Angel.
Cooperfield.
Magicians. They do 'tricks' that stun and amaze many people.
God/jesus did the same type of things.
So are they nothing more than magicians?
Let's compare:
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield/jesus = human
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield/jesus = doing actions that surprise and impress certain (though not all) viewers
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield/jesus = men
Let's contrast:
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield = alive jesus = dead
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield = verifiable in the real world jesus = unverifiable
It sure seems god can be called nothing more than a magician. Is that true, or is it something else?
How do we know this?
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Magic and god
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dianaiad
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Re: Magic and god
Post #61Ah....and stay with me....connermt wrote: [Replying to post 59 by dianaiad]
Actually, irrelevant. Ron & I aren't trying to 'go at it the same way'.Actually, both you and Ron are going at this precisely backwards...
You're right, but I didn't mention QTY so another irrelevant point....the number of people who believe in God do not prove His existence...Vapidly wrong.My point is...
You can prove god exists to you, not me
Therefore, the most logical (I know, but stay with me) conclusion is that god exists only in your mind (the mind of a believer), not in the reality you and I share.
Otherwise, you'd be able to show me.
You can't.
Nothing more to say.
you have just made a claim; that god exists only in my mind and not in the reality you and I share. That's a positive claim.
Boy, is that a positive claim.
If I cannot prove to you that God exists...how does that affect His actual existence? My inability to prove this means only that I can't prove it....not that He does not exist.
So...I believe He exists. You claim that because you don't, and I can't prove it to you (and there could be many reasons I might not be able to do that, only one of which involves His non-existence) then He doesn't exist in the 'reality you and I share."
Here it comes.
Ready?
Prove it.
....and if you cannot, does that mean I get to write "because you can't prove to me that God does not exist, and we 'share a reality,' then He exists because my 'reality' includes Him? Otherwise, you'd be able to show me [that there is no god]. You can't." ????
Post #64
Hi Sizzle....sizzle-d wrote: [Replying to post 51 by RonE]
It is. I meant I DON'T HAVE A FAITH HEALER. That's what i meant.
I normally just lurk on here and read all the posts and replies but when the topic of magic and illusions come up, then I cannot help but to jump right in. For the record, I do magic or illusions as a hobby and believe me when I tell you that TB Joshua is a fake and has been exposed as one. The fact that you and many others believe in his abilities doesn't make it real or true.
Maybe one day, you can visit me in South Africa and watch me turn water into wine and I'll even walk on water too. You can make a Youtube video of it and as a special favour, I will levitate for you as well.
Post #65
Real or not, I'd like to see that video!Misita wrote:Hi Sizzle....sizzle-d wrote: [Replying to post 51 by RonE]
It is. I meant I DON'T HAVE A FAITH HEALER. That's what i meant.
I normally just lurk on here and read all the posts and replies but when the topic of magic and illusions come up, then I cannot help but to jump right in. For the record, I do magic or illusions as a hobby and believe me when I tell you that TB Joshua is a fake and has been exposed as one. The fact that you and many others believe in his abilities doesn't make it real or true.
Maybe one day, you can visit me in South Africa and watch me turn water into wine and I'll even walk on water too. You can make a Youtube video of it and as a special favour, I will levitate for you as well.
When it's posted, lemme know
Re: Magic and god
Post #66[Replying to post 61 by dianaiad]
Hi Di, I'm back to work today, hope we can continue our conversation at some point.
Hi Di, I'm back to work today, hope we can continue our conversation at some point.
*"On the other hand, we have people who are believers who are so completely sold on the literal interpretation of the first book of the Bible that they are rejecting very compelling scientific data about the age of the earth and the relatedness of living beings." Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D.
*The Atheist has the comfort of no fears for an afterlife and lacks any compulsion to blow himself up.
* Science flies to you the moon.... religion flies you into buildings.
* Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
*The Atheist has the comfort of no fears for an afterlife and lacks any compulsion to blow himself up.
* Science flies to you the moon.... religion flies you into buildings.
* Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
Re: Magic and god
Post #67See above bolded statement.dianaiad wrote:Ah....and stay with me....connermt wrote: [Replying to post 59 by dianaiad]
Actually, irrelevant. Ron & I aren't trying to 'go at it the same way'.Actually, both you and Ron are going at this precisely backwards...
You're right, but I didn't mention QTY so another irrelevant point....the number of people who believe in God do not prove His existence...Vapidly wrong.My point is...
You can prove god exists to you, not me
Therefore, the most logical (I know, but stay with me) conclusion is that god exists only in your mind (the mind of a believer), not in the reality you and I share.
Otherwise, you'd be able to show me.
You can't.
Nothing more to say.
you have just made a claim; that god exists only in my mind and not in the reality you and I share. That's a positive claim.
Boy, is that a positive claim.
If I cannot prove to you that God exists...how does that affect His actual existence? My inability to prove this means only that I can't prove it....not that He does not exist.
So...I believe He exists. You claim that because you don't, and I can't prove it to you (and there could be many reasons I might not be able to do that, only one of which involves His non-existence) then He doesn't exist in the 'reality you and I share."
Here it comes.
Ready?
Prove it.
....and if you cannot, does that mean I get to write "because you can't prove to me that God does not exist, and we 'share a reality,' then He exists because my 'reality' includes Him? Otherwise, you'd be able to show me [that there is no god]. You can't." ????
Why you continue when I've shown my POV to be accurate is amusing and beyond impressive. By all means continue, just don't expect me to follow.
Happy posting
Post #68
Hahahahaha....you make me laugh and I really enjoy your posts on this forum. Divine Insight is another poster that makes this site very welcome. As for the magic on video, the point I was trying to make to Sizzle is that these "miracles" are very easy to replicate with a bit of preparation, misdirection and sleight of hand. The water to wine for instance, I have taken a bit further and made 4 different drinks out of one jug of water.connermt wrote:Real or not, I'd like to see that video!Misita wrote:Hi Sizzle....sizzle-d wrote: [Replying to post 51 by RonE]
It is. I meant I DON'T HAVE A FAITH HEALER. That's what i meant.
I normally just lurk on here and read all the posts and replies but when the topic of magic and illusions come up, then I cannot help but to jump right in. For the record, I do magic or illusions as a hobby and believe me when I tell you that TB Joshua is a fake and has been exposed as one. The fact that you and many others believe in his abilities doesn't make it real or true.
Maybe one day, you can visit me in South Africa and watch me turn water into wine and I'll even walk on water too. You can make a Youtube video of it and as a special favour, I will levitate for you as well.
When it's posted, lemme know
Post #69
[Replying to post 68 by Misita]
You can't make a point about miracles and illusion being the same. I've seen a guy show how they do that, he passed a coin through glass and it looked real because you couldn't see the magnet holding the other coin, duh.
Miracles are not magic or things done for entertainment. Even Jesus Christ refused to perform a miracle when He was asked to do it to prove Himself.
You can't make a point about miracles and illusion being the same. I've seen a guy show how they do that, he passed a coin through glass and it looked real because you couldn't see the magnet holding the other coin, duh.
Miracles are not magic or things done for entertainment. Even Jesus Christ refused to perform a miracle when He was asked to do it to prove Himself.
Evolution: A perfect sci-fi story backed up by a science circle of ignoring that which it can't explain.
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
Post #70
You are missing the point my friend. Magicians can prove that miracles aren't real. Derren Brown, a world famous mentalist / magician, does this all the time on television. He even managed to convince Christians that he has "supernatural" powers. You should watch his shows sometime instead of that TB Joshua bloke.sizzle-d wrote: [Replying to post 68 by Misita]
You can't make a point about miracles and illusion being the same. I've seen a guy show how they do that, he passed a coin through glass and it looked real because you couldn't see the magnet holding the other coin, duh.
Miracles are not magic or things done for entertainment. Even Jesus Christ refused to perform a miracle when He was asked to do it to prove Himself.
There are parts in the bible that I don't understand.....that doesn't concern me. It is the parts I do understand that worries me.
