As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .
In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .
At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger
as for a start i will ask a question :
What Are The Qualification Of God ?!
Is Jesus God ?!!
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mms20102
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Post #61
[Replying to Blastcat]
1- As an atheist u spoke about how god can have human feeling yet u said u don't believe in god
so ..
Either u can't know if u are right or not or you are just speaking about something you have no knowledge about
2- As to know the characteristics of god u need first to define what is god in other words If u can't define what god is how can I explain any thing to since every thing makes no sense to you ?
3- The difference between creation and developing can be better explained in Arabic since creation means making something out of nothing unlike developing which means using things already existing and make some thing no one has done before out of it in other words " Invention " and any one speaking Arabic can differentiate between invention and creation .. God can create as he has the power to do so .. any other creature can't including satan ...
no magic is involved at all its the basics of god characteristics
4- Having the holy Quran I can prove all what u need , point by point , since this topic is a side topic for the debate I prefer not to get into it right now maybe a new debate can be a better thing
5- Again since you don't believe in god how do you come to know if god can or can not be in human form do you have a prove ?!
6- If you invent robot and but a program for it to say Japanese does it means you speak Japanese ?
its very simple if you take the queen of England as an example if the people she rules are adulterous that means she does the same ? god created us with feelings doesn't mean he feels the same or does have body like us or have 2 eyes 2 hands or even have body but if u say got has emotion that means god can cry god can play god can feel depressed just imagine if god feels depressed then we are all doomed we are not created to amuse god
7- If we don't use logic and comparison and analogy we never have knew there is a god
8- Speaking about illness god created it to test the faith of people and god is going to reward those who passed through it ..
the life we are living is just useless " since you have no believe in god you have no believe of resseruction " god says if u are so sure about you are right wish from god you die so you meet your claims faster .
I have made a simple explanation and all proves can be found as verses in quran now I need you to make prove to your speech as being atheist means you have no prove that god doesn't exist
1- As an atheist u spoke about how god can have human feeling yet u said u don't believe in god
so ..
Either u can't know if u are right or not or you are just speaking about something you have no knowledge about
2- As to know the characteristics of god u need first to define what is god in other words If u can't define what god is how can I explain any thing to since every thing makes no sense to you ?
3- The difference between creation and developing can be better explained in Arabic since creation means making something out of nothing unlike developing which means using things already existing and make some thing no one has done before out of it in other words " Invention " and any one speaking Arabic can differentiate between invention and creation .. God can create as he has the power to do so .. any other creature can't including satan ...
no magic is involved at all its the basics of god characteristics
4- Having the holy Quran I can prove all what u need , point by point , since this topic is a side topic for the debate I prefer not to get into it right now maybe a new debate can be a better thing
5- Again since you don't believe in god how do you come to know if god can or can not be in human form do you have a prove ?!
6- If you invent robot and but a program for it to say Japanese does it means you speak Japanese ?
its very simple if you take the queen of England as an example if the people she rules are adulterous that means she does the same ? god created us with feelings doesn't mean he feels the same or does have body like us or have 2 eyes 2 hands or even have body but if u say got has emotion that means god can cry god can play god can feel depressed just imagine if god feels depressed then we are all doomed we are not created to amuse god
7- If we don't use logic and comparison and analogy we never have knew there is a god
8- Speaking about illness god created it to test the faith of people and god is going to reward those who passed through it ..
the life we are living is just useless " since you have no believe in god you have no believe of resseruction " god says if u are so sure about you are right wish from god you die so you meet your claims faster .
I have made a simple explanation and all proves can be found as verses in quran now I need you to make prove to your speech as being atheist means you have no prove that god doesn't exist
Post #63
[Replying to post 61 by mms20102]
Hi, mms20102
There's a firrst time for everything
But it's up to YOU to define the thing you would like to prove exists, not I.
I don't have that problem, you do.
I'm not at all sure what that means or how it's supposed to work.
When I come up with a creative idea, it seems to come out of nothing, weird, huh?
If you want to prove that your god exists to me, you have the burden of the proof.
I, on the contrary have nothing to prove. I just don't YET believe in your god. I don't think it exists, you see.
But it's true. Just because real human beings have feelings, it doesn't imply that your proposed god has any. But the god of the bible stories displays very human emotions. Again, I have to remind you that I'm not too familiar with the god as depicted in the Quran.
I will try my best to catch up to you ... but give me a break. You'd be shocked at my ignorance. And I'm very sorry, but I wont start studying the whole Quran just to be able to debate with you, so if that's a problem for you... it's ok if you want to stop.
Saying that I will meet god in an afterlife is a claim.
And a thoroughly unsubstantiated claim, at that.
And I have no proof that it does.
So, I don't believe that a god exists of any kind.
That makes ME an atheist.
But I don't have the burden of the proof.
You want to prove your god exists? Ok, do it.
I don't have to prove to you that I don't believe in your god.
Nobody is going to force you into a debate.
If this is your first attempt at debating with an atheist about the existence of your god, you are doing a fine job. So far, I'm not finding the language barrier all that hard to get over. Just maybe once in a while. Let me know if there is anything that I write you don't fully understand, and I will be glad to try to make it more clear.
In the two years that I've been debating in here, you are my very first Muslim... so, be patient. I've only debated a few Muslims before.
I don't know a lot about the theology, much to my chagrin. But, logic is logic. Make your case, and if I spot any logic errors, I will be quick to point them out to you.
Who wants to be wrong?
Hi, mms20102
There's a firrst time for everything
Because this site is primarily about debating with Christians, I'm speaking of the Bible god, so far. I am not too familiar with the Quran god. In the BIBLE, we have STORIES where god gets angry and jealous. I don't have to BELIEVE or pretend to KNOW anything about an actual god to be able to read a book.mms20102 wrote:1- As an atheist u spoke about how god can have human feeling yet u said u don't believe in god
so ..
Either u can't know if u are right or not or you are just speaking about something you have no knowledge about
Right, bit of a problem for you, isn't it?mms20102 wrote:2- As to know the characteristics of god u need first to define what is god in other words If u can't define what god is how can I explain any thing to since every thing makes no sense to you ?
But it's up to YOU to define the thing you would like to prove exists, not I.
I don't have that problem, you do.
Right, you claim that people can't create things out of nothing, but that the god can.mms20102 wrote:3- The difference between creation and developing can be better explained in Arabic since creation means making something out of nothing unlike developing which means using things already existing and make some thing no one has done before out of it in other words " Invention " and any one speaking Arabic can differentiate between invention and creation .. God can create as he has the power to do so .. any other creature can't including satan ...
I'm not at all sure what that means or how it's supposed to work.
When I come up with a creative idea, it seems to come out of nothing, weird, huh?
Then how do you call the ability to create something out of nothing.. what is that ability called?mms20102 wrote:no magic is involved at all its the basics of god characteristics
hmm so your PROOF would be a side topic to proving that your god exists.. interesting.mms20102 wrote:4- Having the holy Quran I can prove all what u need , point by point , since this topic is a side topic for the debate I prefer not to get into it right now maybe a new debate can be a better thing
I don't have any proof for anything about any gods.mms20102 wrote:5- Again since you don't believe in god how do you come to know if god can or can not be in human form do you have a prove ?!
If you want to prove that your god exists to me, you have the burden of the proof.
I, on the contrary have nothing to prove. I just don't YET believe in your god. I don't think it exists, you see.
Not necessarily, no.mms20102 wrote:6- If you invent robot and but a program for it to say Japanese does it means you speak Japanese ?
Nope.mms20102 wrote:its very simple if you take the queen of England as an example if the people she rules are adulterous that means she does the same ?
Sheesh.. long sentence.mms20102 wrote:god created us with feelings doesn't mean he feels the same or does have body like us or have 2 eyes 2 hands or even have body but if u say got has emotion that means god can cry god can play god can feel depressed just imagine if god feels depressed then we are all doomed we are not created to amuse god
But it's true. Just because real human beings have feelings, it doesn't imply that your proposed god has any. But the god of the bible stories displays very human emotions. Again, I have to remind you that I'm not too familiar with the god as depicted in the Quran.
I will try my best to catch up to you ... but give me a break. You'd be shocked at my ignorance. And I'm very sorry, but I wont start studying the whole Quran just to be able to debate with you, so if that's a problem for you... it's ok if you want to stop.
I'm not sure that you have demonstrated that. People make up stories. And some people believe the stories are true. We don't need logic to be gullible like that.mms20102 wrote:7- If we don't use logic and comparison and analogy we never have knew there is a god
Oh you seem to imply that you know the mind of the god.mms20102 wrote:8- Speaking about illness god created it to test the faith of people and god is going to reward those who passed through it ..
Not believing in something isn't a claim.mms20102 wrote:the life we are living is just useless " since you have no believe in god you have no believe of resseruction " god says if u are so sure about you are right wish from god you die so you meet your claims faster .
Saying that I will meet god in an afterlife is a claim.
And a thoroughly unsubstantiated claim, at that.
That's right, I have no proof that God doesn't exist.mms20102 wrote:I have made a simple explanation and all proves can be found as verses in quran now I need you to make prove to your speech as being atheist means you have no prove that god doesn't exist
And I have no proof that it does.
So, I don't believe that a god exists of any kind.
That makes ME an atheist.
But I don't have the burden of the proof.
You want to prove your god exists? Ok, do it.
I don't have to prove to you that I don't believe in your god.
Nobody is going to force you into a debate.
If this is your first attempt at debating with an atheist about the existence of your god, you are doing a fine job. So far, I'm not finding the language barrier all that hard to get over. Just maybe once in a while. Let me know if there is anything that I write you don't fully understand, and I will be glad to try to make it more clear.
In the two years that I've been debating in here, you are my very first Muslim... so, be patient. I've only debated a few Muslims before.
I don't know a lot about the theology, much to my chagrin. But, logic is logic. Make your case, and if I spot any logic errors, I will be quick to point them out to you.
Who wants to be wrong?
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mms20102
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Post #64
[Replying to post 63 by Blastcat]
The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.
AL-MA'IDAH (5:75)
1- You are speaking about the bible so i ask you , Is there a proof from the bible that jesus said iam god >> no
2- Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. (2 Corinthians 4:4)
And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
(Exodus 7:1)
If you have the original language of the bible u will be reading the verse the same i wrote
I need to ask why "the god" is on small g while its a proper noun from the translation ? and is the Devil and Moses are Gods !
3- " because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. "
(John 14:28)
" My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. " (John 10:29)
“I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me." (John 5:30)
those verses states clearly Jesus says Im not like father " my god "
4- " And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?� 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. "
again he speaks about his father
5- " But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. " (Mark 13:32)
If Jesus doesn't know and only The father knows then he is not god
6- "but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are " Hebrews 4:15
" Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. " Matthew 4:1
God gets tempted by satan ?
7- " Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. " Hebrews 5:8
is this a quality of god
8- "On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he was hungry. 13 And seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs."And he said to it, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.� And his disciples heard it.
If god the creator of figs don't know what season it comes then who knows
9- "Jesus wept. 36 So the Jews said, “See how he loved him!� 37 But some of them said, “Could not he who opened the eyes of the blind man also have kept this man from dying?� Then Jesus, deeply moved again, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 39 Jesus said, “Take away the stone.� Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, “Lord, by this time there will be an odor, for he has been dead four days.� 40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not tell you that if you believed you would see the glory of God?� 41 So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me.� 43 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out.� 44 The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.� John 11:35-44
again father is doing all the work jesus is just doing nothing but asking
10 - " Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know " Acts 2:22
said by peter
11- " And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep. "
do god sleep ?
12- After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.�
god gets thirst
13- “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
"Matthew 7:21-23"
and again and again .....
I will not be deviated into another topic i just want you to explain those verses above since you read and know bible
The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.
AL-MA'IDAH (5:75)
1- You are speaking about the bible so i ask you , Is there a proof from the bible that jesus said iam god >> no
2- Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. (2 Corinthians 4:4)
And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
(Exodus 7:1)
If you have the original language of the bible u will be reading the verse the same i wrote
I need to ask why "the god" is on small g while its a proper noun from the translation ? and is the Devil and Moses are Gods !
3- " because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. "
(John 14:28)
" My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. " (John 10:29)
“I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me." (John 5:30)
those verses states clearly Jesus says Im not like father " my god "
4- " And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?� 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. "
again he speaks about his father
5- " But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. " (Mark 13:32)
If Jesus doesn't know and only The father knows then he is not god
6- "but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are " Hebrews 4:15
" Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. " Matthew 4:1
God gets tempted by satan ?
7- " Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. " Hebrews 5:8
is this a quality of god
8- "On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he was hungry. 13 And seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs."And he said to it, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.� And his disciples heard it.
If god the creator of figs don't know what season it comes then who knows
9- "Jesus wept. 36 So the Jews said, “See how he loved him!� 37 But some of them said, “Could not he who opened the eyes of the blind man also have kept this man from dying?� Then Jesus, deeply moved again, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 39 Jesus said, “Take away the stone.� Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, “Lord, by this time there will be an odor, for he has been dead four days.� 40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not tell you that if you believed you would see the glory of God?� 41 So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me.� 43 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out.� 44 The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.� John 11:35-44
again father is doing all the work jesus is just doing nothing but asking
10 - " Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know " Acts 2:22
said by peter
11- " And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep. "
do god sleep ?
12- After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.�
god gets thirst
13- “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
"Matthew 7:21-23"
and again and again .....
I will not be deviated into another topic i just want you to explain those verses above since you read and know bible
Post #65
[Replying to post 64 by mms20102]
Hi, mms20102
" I know nothing"
- Master Sergeant Schultz
So, I will write it just once, instead.
All of my answers are:
I can't tell because I know NOTHING at all about gods of ANY kind.
You are asking the wrong kind of guy. Agnostics and atheists simply DO NOT KNOW or pretend to know anything about gods.
Is Jesus a god?.. Well, I don't even BELIEVE in gods. So, I WOULD SAY .. of course Jesus isn't a god. I'd even go further than that. I don't BELIEVE that Jesus even existed AT ALL. Not even as a real human being. He MIGHT have been a fabrication of some sort for some reason.
WHO KNOWS?
I surely don't.
On the other hand, you seem imply that you DO know what a god is and what it can and cannot do. That it can't eat or sleep or drink or do anything that it wants to do. I don't know where you get those ideas from. I don't know anything about gods the way that you seem to. So, if you don't think that a god can do the things that Jesus did.. ok. That's great. You don't think that.
What I would like to know is:
How did YOU obtain all of that factual information about the nature of GODS?
Hi, mms20102
" I know nothing"
- Master Sergeant Schultz
Thanks for all of your hard efforts. I started answering them one by one, then noticed that I was writing the same thing over and over again.mms20102 wrote: I will not be deviated into another topic i just want you to explain those verses above since you read and know bible
So, I will write it just once, instead.
All of my answers are:
I can't tell because I know NOTHING at all about gods of ANY kind.
You are asking the wrong kind of guy. Agnostics and atheists simply DO NOT KNOW or pretend to know anything about gods.
Is Jesus a god?.. Well, I don't even BELIEVE in gods. So, I WOULD SAY .. of course Jesus isn't a god. I'd even go further than that. I don't BELIEVE that Jesus even existed AT ALL. Not even as a real human being. He MIGHT have been a fabrication of some sort for some reason.
WHO KNOWS?
I surely don't.
On the other hand, you seem imply that you DO know what a god is and what it can and cannot do. That it can't eat or sleep or drink or do anything that it wants to do. I don't know where you get those ideas from. I don't know anything about gods the way that you seem to. So, if you don't think that a god can do the things that Jesus did.. ok. That's great. You don't think that.
What I would like to know is:
How did YOU obtain all of that factual information about the nature of GODS?
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mms20102
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Post #66
[Replying to Blastcat]
This is exactly what I wanted you to reply so since u know nothing don't debate since you have no right to make questions or answer any otherwise stick to cause and defend it , being have no side of the debate means u can't debate
This is exactly what I wanted you to reply so since u know nothing don't debate since you have no right to make questions or answer any otherwise stick to cause and defend it , being have no side of the debate means u can't debate
Post #67
[Replying to post 66 by mms20102]
Hi, mms20102
"Tenga cuidado con lo que deseas , es posible que lo consigue ."
- Spanish Proverb
If you cannot tell us how you know about gods, then you have failed to prove your case. That's how you would lose the debate, you see.
OR, you can simply leave and lose that way.
A lot of people seem to abandon debates and lose that way. It seems to be very popular around here. So, if you don't want to abdicate or lose by not making your case, tell us how you came to know about the nature of gods?
But I am not the one who wanted to prove something. I'm not the one who claims to know something. I think that was YOU, wasn't it? So, prove it or.. you lost the debate about it. Debates are pretty simple that way.
Sorry.
I didn't make any claim about Jesus, you did.
You say that Jesus is NOT god. Now, how do you prove it?
Not by my ignorance, I hope.
My ignorance doesn't prove ANYTHING that you might want to prove.
I am VERY skeptical about your claims to special knowledge about gods.
My cause right now is to find out how you KNOW about gods?
Where oh where did you GET that information about gods?
If you wont or cant tell us, you lost this one.
You make a claim about Jesus.. I am OPPOSED to that claim you make.
I say that so far, you have not PROVED that Jesus is not god.
I say that so far, you have failed to demonstrate that your claims about Jesus are TRUE.
So far, you have failed.
Keep trying, maybe you will succeed.
It's only over if you quit or cannot provide a proof for your claims.
Did you abdicate?
Hi, mms20102
"Tenga cuidado con lo que deseas , es posible que lo consigue ."
- Spanish Proverb
It's interesting that you think that because I don't know something, that I don't have a right to ask you questions about it. You claim to know. I ask you questions about how you know. If you don't want to answer the questions, we can assume that you don't know how you know.mms20102 wrote:This is exactly what I wanted you to reply so since u know nothing don't debate since you have no right to make questions
If you cannot tell us how you know about gods, then you have failed to prove your case. That's how you would lose the debate, you see.
OR, you can simply leave and lose that way.
A lot of people seem to abandon debates and lose that way. It seems to be very popular around here. So, if you don't want to abdicate or lose by not making your case, tell us how you came to know about the nature of gods?
Oh, I don't pretend to answer when I don't know something other than by "I DON'T KNOW".mms20102 wrote:or answer
But I am not the one who wanted to prove something. I'm not the one who claims to know something. I think that was YOU, wasn't it? So, prove it or.. you lost the debate about it. Debates are pretty simple that way.
Sorry.
I didn't make any claim about Jesus, you did.
You say that Jesus is NOT god. Now, how do you prove it?
Not by my ignorance, I hope.
My ignorance doesn't prove ANYTHING that you might want to prove.
My cause is to keep your feet to the fire. I don't need an easy victory. Make it hard for me. Give us your proof. Make it good.mms20102 wrote:any otherwise stick to cause and defend it ,
I am VERY skeptical about your claims to special knowledge about gods.
My cause right now is to find out how you KNOW about gods?
Where oh where did you GET that information about gods?
If you wont or cant tell us, you lost this one.
I take the side that you haven't proved your point yet.mms20102 wrote:being have no side of the debate means u can't debate
You make a claim about Jesus.. I am OPPOSED to that claim you make.
I say that so far, you have not PROVED that Jesus is not god.
I say that so far, you have failed to demonstrate that your claims about Jesus are TRUE.
So far, you have failed.
Keep trying, maybe you will succeed.
It's only over if you quit or cannot provide a proof for your claims.
Did you abdicate?
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mms20102
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Post #68
[Replying to post 67 by Blastcat]
wait wait wait slow down for a bit its not me the one have no case its you sir the debate question is " Is Jesus god ? " not does god exists so I have given proves from Quran and Bible as the main sources for religion issues yet you failed to answer my questions so its not my problem maybe you should ask some one knows
yet u said u don't believe in god what does this have to do with my debate I didn't ask you do you believe in god and you force the fact that I should prove the existence of god you have a book with thousand of words called god and yet u want a proof its just in front of you sorry forgot you don't believe in any books .
well again u say I don't want to give you answers no sir its you the one should provide answers since the majority of this world are believers then its the nature to believe in god now you denied something so its you the one to prove your denial as for so far I have gave 13 reason why Jesus can't be god and you failed to spot even one of them its not my problem its your problem now
wait wait wait slow down for a bit its not me the one have no case its you sir the debate question is " Is Jesus god ? " not does god exists so I have given proves from Quran and Bible as the main sources for religion issues yet you failed to answer my questions so its not my problem maybe you should ask some one knows
yet u said u don't believe in god what does this have to do with my debate I didn't ask you do you believe in god and you force the fact that I should prove the existence of god you have a book with thousand of words called god and yet u want a proof its just in front of you sorry forgot you don't believe in any books .
well again u say I don't want to give you answers no sir its you the one should provide answers since the majority of this world are believers then its the nature to believe in god now you denied something so its you the one to prove your denial as for so far I have gave 13 reason why Jesus can't be god and you failed to spot even one of them its not my problem its your problem now
Post #69
[Replying to post 68 by mms20102]
Hi, mms20102
By what method have you acquired the knowledge about the characteristics of gods?
I can make a very STRONG case for that, I'm afraid.
If Jesus is god or not.. doesn't matter to me. What believers might have to say about DOES matter to me. So I address the only thing that matters to me.. and right now, that happens to be EVERYTHING you bother to write.
I am not trying to defend any proposition on the matter. I don't believe in any gods. So, that's it for me. I can't believe that Jesus is a god.
I stopped believing in that kind of thing about 45 years ago. ( and counting, I might add )
HOWEVER
You seem to be trying to defend a proposition on the matter.
I challenge your claim to know anything about the nature of gods.
That is all that I am doing.
You say that Jesus is ... a man.. I say, "You haven't yet proved that you know anything about gods".
I only mention my disbelief so that you can understand the kind of person you are trying to convince. If you would like to convince a believer, I suggest another forum. There are atheists in this one.
You make you case, and I am opposing it.
That's a debate.
My position is that I don't KNOW about gods. That's it.
I don't know WHAT I'm supposed to defend about that.
ON the other hand, you seem to know about gods.
I ask how on earth you know a thing like THAT?
But I think that perhaps you mean otherwise. You might mean to say that Jesus cannot be a god ... in REALITY. Then, using the holy books is out of context. I don't believe the holy books mentioned are good representatives of reality.
I have answered the questions. I said that I didn't know.
You still have not made your own case, however.
You have stated your opinion, and have not yet defended it to my satisfaction.
Do you abdicate?
Because, NOBODY can be a god.. if there is no god.
I don't ask you to prove that God exists in this debate, I'm saying why I think that being a god isn't something that I consider possible.
Nobody will force you to answer them.
But if you do not, or cannot answer them, you have abdicated the debate.
Sorry, but that's how it works.
I answered yours. All of the answers were "I don't know".
You have yet to tell us how you know the true nature of any god in reality.
What questions would you like me to answer about that?
People should go beyond the most common of sense. We can do MUCH better than the base line kind of thinking.
1. I don't believe in gods.
2. Therefore, I don't believe in gods.
(I usually never use the word "denial", as I don't think there is anything to deny. I just don't believe.)
I don't see how my ignorance about the subject proves your case. I think that the only thing that you have established is to CONFIRM that I don't know anything about gods, and that you are comfortable making knowledge claims about the nature of gods.
I challenge those claims.
But pointing out my ignorance doesn't help your own case, I'm afraid. You would still have to explain how you know what gods are like. You haven't tried SO FAR... It seems to me that PERHAPS, you know nothing about gods, either. So, that when you say Jesus can't be a god, you are simply voicing your belief. But PROVING that Jesus is not god?
No, you haven't done that at all.
Not by what you have given us so far.
You might IMAGINE that God doesn't sleep.
Others can imagine differently.
We would need some way to find OUT one way or another.
Do you have a way?
To me, at best, Jesus can only be a man.
So, now, you seem to be telling us that you are abandoning the debate. You seem to be waiting for an answer that I ADMIT that I cannot provide. I don't think you have demonstrated that you can really provide one either.
I don't think you can win THAT way, do you?
So, I will ask again.
By what method have you acquired the knowledge about the characteristics of gods?
Hi, mms20102
By what method have you acquired the knowledge about the characteristics of gods?
The only case that I am trying to make is that YOURS isn't satisfactory.mms20102 wrote: wait wait wait slow down for a bit its not me the one have no case its you sir
I can make a very STRONG case for that, I'm afraid.
If Jesus is god or not.. doesn't matter to me. What believers might have to say about DOES matter to me. So I address the only thing that matters to me.. and right now, that happens to be EVERYTHING you bother to write.
I am not trying to defend any proposition on the matter. I don't believe in any gods. So, that's it for me. I can't believe that Jesus is a god.
I stopped believing in that kind of thing about 45 years ago. ( and counting, I might add )
HOWEVER
You seem to be trying to defend a proposition on the matter.
I challenge your claim to know anything about the nature of gods.
That is all that I am doing.
You say that Jesus is ... a man.. I say, "You haven't yet proved that you know anything about gods".
I completely understand that.mms20102 wrote:the debate question is " Is Jesus god ? " not does god exists
I only mention my disbelief so that you can understand the kind of person you are trying to convince. If you would like to convince a believer, I suggest another forum. There are atheists in this one.
You make you case, and I am opposing it.
That's a debate.
My position is that I don't KNOW about gods. That's it.
I don't know WHAT I'm supposed to defend about that.
ON the other hand, you seem to know about gods.
I ask how on earth you know a thing like THAT?
I think that part of our problem communicating might stem from the fact that I don't consider those holy books authoritative, but mostly religious propaganda and myths. So, whenever a person explains why such and such a thing is true by way of these holy books, I consider them to be trying to prove something within a story, but not necessarily a TRUE story and certainly not something about REALITY.mms20102 wrote:so I have given proves from Quran and Bible as the main sources for religion issues yet you failed to answer my questions so its not my problem maybe you should ask some one knows
But I think that perhaps you mean otherwise. You might mean to say that Jesus cannot be a god ... in REALITY. Then, using the holy books is out of context. I don't believe the holy books mentioned are good representatives of reality.
I have answered the questions. I said that I didn't know.
You still have not made your own case, however.
You have stated your opinion, and have not yet defended it to my satisfaction.
Do you abdicate?
I was explaining why, to me, this question is moot. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that it's so to other people. You make a case, I can oppose it, and criticize it, and challenge it. That's what I am doing. Reminding you that I don't believe in any gods is to say why I would need to have proof that Jesus COULD be God before I even considered the idea. So, Jesus, if he is an actual person, has to be a human.mms20102 wrote:yet u said u don't believe in god what does this have to do with my debate
Because, NOBODY can be a god.. if there is no god.
Right.mms20102 wrote:I didn't ask you do you believe in god and you force the fact that I should prove the existence of god
I don't ask you to prove that God exists in this debate, I'm saying why I think that being a god isn't something that I consider possible.
I believe in the existence of books, I don't believe in gods.mms20102 wrote:you have a book with thousand of words called god and yet u want a proof its just in front of you sorry forgot you don't believe in any books .
I asked you some questions.mms20102 wrote:well again u say I don't want to give you answers no sir
Nobody will force you to answer them.
But if you do not, or cannot answer them, you have abdicated the debate.
Sorry, but that's how it works.
I answered yours. All of the answers were "I don't know".
You have yet to tell us how you know the true nature of any god in reality.
I don't believe in gods.mms20102 wrote:its you the one should provide answers since the majority of this world are believers
What questions would you like me to answer about that?
Sometimes, NATURE isn't the best guide to what is real. Sometimes common sense leads us to error. That is why people have developed critical thinking skills over the years. They work a LOT better when it comes time to figure out reality.mms20102 wrote:then its the nature to believe in god
People should go beyond the most common of sense. We can do MUCH better than the base line kind of thinking.
Ok.mms20102 wrote:now you denied something so its you the one to prove your denial
1. I don't believe in gods.
2. Therefore, I don't believe in gods.
(I usually never use the word "denial", as I don't think there is anything to deny. I just don't believe.)
What I noticed that you actually did was to ask me a lot of questions.. can god sleep was one such question TO WHICH I answered quite honestly "I DON'T KNOW".mms20102 wrote:as for so far I have gave 13 reason why Jesus can't be god
I don't see how my ignorance about the subject proves your case. I think that the only thing that you have established is to CONFIRM that I don't know anything about gods, and that you are comfortable making knowledge claims about the nature of gods.
I challenge those claims.
But pointing out my ignorance doesn't help your own case, I'm afraid. You would still have to explain how you know what gods are like. You haven't tried SO FAR... It seems to me that PERHAPS, you know nothing about gods, either. So, that when you say Jesus can't be a god, you are simply voicing your belief. But PROVING that Jesus is not god?
No, you haven't done that at all.
Not by what you have given us so far.
You might IMAGINE that God doesn't sleep.
Others can imagine differently.
We would need some way to find OUT one way or another.
Do you have a way?
I don't have a problem about the topic. I don't believe in gods.mms20102 wrote:and you failed to spot even one of them its not my problem its your problem now
To me, at best, Jesus can only be a man.
So, now, you seem to be telling us that you are abandoning the debate. You seem to be waiting for an answer that I ADMIT that I cannot provide. I don't think you have demonstrated that you can really provide one either.
I don't think you can win THAT way, do you?
So, I will ask again.
By what method have you acquired the knowledge about the characteristics of gods?
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mms20102
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Post #70
[Replying to Blastcat]
considering I don't know as an answer u need to stop debating until you get enough knowledge
you got the debate out of its criteria . u want a challenge then u can held a new debate , not challenge a side topic that interests you .. since u have no believe no knowledge I can consider that I made my case since no body could answer my asked questions
and since you don't believe in Jesus and u have no knowledge of how to answer bible problems and don't have any prove from either the bible or any other book then you should stop arguing for while and get enough knowledge and speak about the subject other than analyzing comments with pointless posts you need to make sense out of your debating because for the last 3 to 5 posts all you have been doing is moving around the original subject by the word " IDK " .
considering I don't know as an answer u need to stop debating until you get enough knowledge
you got the debate out of its criteria . u want a challenge then u can held a new debate , not challenge a side topic that interests you .. since u have no believe no knowledge I can consider that I made my case since no body could answer my asked questions
and since you don't believe in Jesus and u have no knowledge of how to answer bible problems and don't have any prove from either the bible or any other book then you should stop arguing for while and get enough knowledge and speak about the subject other than analyzing comments with pointless posts you need to make sense out of your debating because for the last 3 to 5 posts all you have been doing is moving around the original subject by the word " IDK " .
