[
Replying to post 59 by tam]
I did not realize scientists had already been able to transform energy (light) into matter until I looked this up just now, but I knew that it was possible to do the reverse.
Standing wave theory helped me get a sense of this (putting on and taking off the flesh) as well. Not suggesting that the science is complete or even entirely accurate yet; only that it helped me to get a sense of the truth my Lord was teaching me.
**
To go even farther, this also supports our realm (the physical realm) having come out of the spiritual realm. Considering that Christ (who came from God) is the Light through whom God created all things.
**
So what laws are being broken?
Hi again tam. Thank you for your reply.
I am unsure as to what you are trying to say in the above. Is it analogy or should it be taken literally?
In relation to light, it is physical. If it were not, then it would not be able to be seen or measured.
Thus, when you say your Lord is 'Light through whom God created all things' if taken literally this would mean that all the light in the universe is your Lord.
But in relation to other things you are saying, this cannot be the case, so I must be misunderstanding what it is you are trying to say here.
As far as I am aware, energy is not light. Light is the result of energy transforming into individual forms.
Indeed, for me at least, I cannot see any difference in energy and matter as they are the same thing. Matter is energy and energy is matter. They are both physical.
Energy is not 'spiritual' while matter is 'physical'.
It appears to me you are saying that this 'spiritual' world which you believe created the physical one, is energy. Is that what you are saying?
Light is information. Information is physical.
Thus, if there be an alternate universe which can be
experienced, then that universe will also be
physical. If it were not, then how could anyone experience it?
Because my Lord teaches about the spiritual realm. Nor does science contradict His teaching. But I would like to be clear on something. Dimension might not be the most accurate word to use. Just the closest scientific word we have at the moment for that realm (when describing the spiritual realm versus physical realm).
How does your Lord teach you this?
So then why would my Lord do this? Use a hologram to pretend to move between walls, appear and disappear, or to eat food and allow Himself to be touched (after His death and resurrection)? Or to ascend?
Why would He do that (actively encourage the beliefs of the Apostles) and allow them to believe that it was He, Himself?
The most likely reason I could give is because what was required was a watershed event which would have the greatest potential in the certainty of changing the direction humanity was heading in, in order that humanity had the best chance of reaching the stage of technological achievement.
Once at that stage, humanity could - if it wished to - understand that 'miracles' could be explained as activities of science rather than of 'supernatural'.
So then sleep is not a common denominator after all, correct?
Generally, yes - it is.
I was giving another example of how something apparently witnessed by a number of individuals simultaneously could be explained by the notion of an advanced technology - as related to the OP subject.
Considering that there are different views of how that return might happen, if something like this hologram event were to occur it might fool some people, maybe even many people, but certainly not all people. It should not fool those people who know their Lord; and who are walking by faith (and listening to His voice) rather than by sight.
But I have no doubt that this possibility is being put 'out there' for a reason: to discourage people; to try and make people doubt that they could know it is Christ when He truly does return... and/or try and make them doubt that it is Him when He does return (if that is even possible).
Whatever the reasons, my bringing this into the discussion wasn't for the purpose of debating why such theories exist, but rather to give an example as to
how things could be done.
Also my point was to show that in today's world,
any event which has beings coming from the sky and setting up camp here on earth, would be seen first and foremost as ET. NOT as some beings coming out of some so-called 'spiritual realm'.
Even if literally Jesus were to be seen to return on horseback from the sky, with a host of angelic beings, this could only now be interpreted as some kind of technologically produced hologram because we understand horses cannot fly in the atmosphere.
The main point though is that people should be considering such things IF such an event did happen. it does not matter either way if the beings are seen to be from another alternate reality or ET from this one. What they proclaim is the thing which would need to be addressed, rather than unquestionably accepted as 'truth.'
This is where faith is dangerous because it demands that a person give up their natural abilities to question supposed truth to make sure that it is variably 'The Truth'...and also why I ask you HOW your Lord tells you things which you obviously believe are true.
I mention this - not to get sidetracked, but to say that our collective understanding on what is possible evolves as our species science does, and if we do not take into consideration that ET might be involved re - not only - Abrahamic religious stories, but ALL cultural stories, then we do so - not because it is somehow beyond the reach of probability - but because the notion somehow changes things drastically if it were indeed the case.
That might be so.
That being said, God and His Son are more advanced than our current scientific knowledge - they know it all (we know a tiny tiny portion)
This could be said of ET as well. That is the point.
Christ said that He would lead us into all truth. All truth would include scientific truth as well; therefore I will just listen to Him.
Which in turn requires you to share exactly what processes you use in order to 'just listen to him'.
Hence, the reason I did not feel like I should contribute to this thread. I do not put much weight upon probability. Since probability is often determined by CURRENT knowledge and does not take into consideration that knowledge and evidence we do not yet possess or understand.
However, this particular subject has
everything to do with that point. ET probably exist and probably have the type of knowledge we do not yet possess or currently understand.
Thus biblical stories can be interpreted in a literal sense by that probability.
Indeed, it is no more or less probably than your belief in a supposed 'supernatural/spiritual' realm. The two ideas have equal probability as far as we can gather. Certainly you have offered no reason why the so-called 'spiritual realm' is more probably than this physical universe.
Surely, not in a conversation that is about Him (and His Father), or in a theory that mentions Him? Not when you are questioning why people in "Abrahamic religions" (or in my case, people who are worshiping the God of Abraham, as revealed by Christ) would ignore or discard the idea of ET.
Well you have yet to show how factoring in his teachings make the ET subject invalid.
I have already pointed out that as recorded his words (or words attributed to having been said by him) are specific to a time and place and in order to be understood had to include concepts people believed in, but where in those words can you
specifically point out that ET are invalid?
I meant Him and His words come first, rather than theories and theologies that others set forth.
How would 'Him and His words' contradict the theory present as the OP topic?
But did you not just suggest above that He allowed His apostles to believe that it was He, Himself, instead of a hologram?
Why are you troubled, [Jesus] asked, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself. Touch Me and see " for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have. And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and feet. While they were still in disbelief because of their joy and amazement, He asked them, Do you have anything here to eat? So they gave Him a piece of broiled fish, and He took it and ate it in front of them.
That is more than allowing; that is stating outright.
I specifically stated that it could have been a highly advance type of hologram. The impression was given for the purpose of creating the watershed event which would propel these men to belief enough to set forth on a contrary projection.
I only referred to those things which appeared to be contrary to known physics, such as seemingly being able to walk through solid objects. Not eating and drinking.
Indeed, the memories could have even been implanted into the minds of those people.
(well, not quite the same thing, since you can only imply that He was not patient, rather than that He was simply speaking the truth regardless of how others reacted.)
He was impatient or at least on occasion chose to give that impression. Perhaps you struggle with this idea because you think impatience is a sign of imperfection and thus is contrary to how you see your Lord?
JAH is the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God and Father of Christ. The Most High God, whom Christ also called the one true God. There is no other god over JAH. He is the alpha (and the omega). There is no source before or above Him.
Considering Israel amalgamated many gods into one, and indeed, Christianity continued with this practice by amalgamating many pagan customs into their religion, yes indeed there is are many sources before this 'one GOD' idea.
First Source is the true source of all things, not god-ideas created in the image of human beings.
You cannot even know for sure that Jesus was speaking about this 'JAH' when speaking about his Father. Indeed, apparently he called some of the Israeli priests liars and followers of a murderous idea of god and evil idea of god.
If I have failed to answer a question or address something you wished to address, by all means, please point it out.
The main things you failed to address which I think you should are those things I pointed out relating to Jesus' warning about multitudes being deceived in his name. That would be specific to Christendom for which you obviously follow - because that is the only aspect of the Abrahamic religions which proclaims Jesus as 'Lord'...and you know...those ones Jesus said called him 'Lord' but he
knew them not and told them to depart from him...He did not know them because they did not know him...something one should ponder yes?
Truth be upon you tam.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.
