Probably Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John... Peter probably wrote one too... He certainly wrote other Epistles. Likely? That he wrote about his experiences with Jesus in a Gospel? Very likely.
There very may be many more authentic Gospels in existence. We probably dont even know the half of the amount of documents that are written about Jesus.. But there are hundreds... And probably hundreds more...
How likely is it for Mark, Matthew, Luke, actually existing? Like real people? Its very likely....
How likely is it that at least some of these books where in collaboration with eyewitnesses testimony? Very likely
Far as im concerned, the best history we can research is the history of the Church and the Temple. The Jewish Temple all the way down to Jesus, and Jesus all the way up to our church today. Beginning right from its base... Jesus, and the Disciples, all the way up the line. Maybe some of the best history you can research
In fact, im going to Rome, in 3 Weeks, did you know the Church goes back to the First Century? It is the Vatican, it was biult on Peters Grave... It exists
Who wrote the Gospels?
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Willum
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Post #61
[Replying to post 59 by Kapyong]
Not true, you have corrected me on other issues, indeed, I have abandoned that position so well, I forgotten what it was, and remember mostly that you would not let it go after I'd conceded.
However, it does seem I am out on the Council of Nicea as well, at least formally. The nigh-truth is they needed cannon to discuss the works, and there may have been a default acknowledgement of the works they would use, which was tacitly accepted by the Christian world.
However, a quick review of the history of the canonization of the, particularly New Testament, reveals that assessment of the NT's ever even being made official is generous.
Apparently, the canonization of the works of the Bible were agglomerated over time and basically by rumor and opinion.
Tomatoe, rotten tomato.
You will find people listen to you better when you aren't insulting - in a realm so full of lie, rumor, hyperbole, metaphor and very little truth at all to be found, you really should be more sympathetic to gaps in other's education.
How does an eclectic learner discriminate lie from rumor? It isn't easy when the rumor you learned was twenty years ago, and it is simply a more logical explanation of the lie.
PS- I think it was about the existence of a deliberate forgery of "Golden People," a reference, I was not able to discover again, as the origin of the "Golden Rule."
Not true, you have corrected me on other issues, indeed, I have abandoned that position so well, I forgotten what it was, and remember mostly that you would not let it go after I'd conceded.
However, it does seem I am out on the Council of Nicea as well, at least formally. The nigh-truth is they needed cannon to discuss the works, and there may have been a default acknowledgement of the works they would use, which was tacitly accepted by the Christian world.
However, a quick review of the history of the canonization of the, particularly New Testament, reveals that assessment of the NT's ever even being made official is generous.
Apparently, the canonization of the works of the Bible were agglomerated over time and basically by rumor and opinion.
Tomatoe, rotten tomato.
You will find people listen to you better when you aren't insulting - in a realm so full of lie, rumor, hyperbole, metaphor and very little truth at all to be found, you really should be more sympathetic to gaps in other's education.
How does an eclectic learner discriminate lie from rumor? It isn't easy when the rumor you learned was twenty years ago, and it is simply a more logical explanation of the lie.
PS- I think it was about the existence of a deliberate forgery of "Golden People," a reference, I was not able to discover again, as the origin of the "Golden Rule."
Post #62
The only rumor spreading around is the rumor Jesus, and the rest of the disciples, didnt exist... Despite the evidence, many dont even care to make their views consistent with the evidence.... Some people are set in their ways believing in their myths...
"The idea that Jesus did not exist is a modern notion. It has no ancient precedents. It was made up in the eighteenth century. One might as well call it a modern myth, the myth of the mythical Jesus."
~Bart Ehrman
"The idea that Jesus did not exist is a modern notion. It has no ancient precedents. It was made up in the eighteenth century. One might as well call it a modern myth, the myth of the mythical Jesus."
~Bart Ehrman
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Willum
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Post #63
[Replying to post 62 by Tart]
You should perhaps remember that dissidents of the Catholic Church would be burned as heretics, and the majority of people agreeing with you of which you speak, would have been burned at the stake, if they didn't.
It is very easy to show something doesn't exist, due diligence turning up nothing but Superman comics, (and some great films - with actors), for example.
But to show something does exist is even easier.
Can you show a single impact on reality that the Bible had that a 1st century comic-book could not?
Can you show a single work of carpentry by Jesus? A single bit of evidence of the thousands gathered to hear him preach? Any description of the afterlife by Lazarus? Any proof of the second most persuasive man (after Jesus), the man who returned from the dead? Anything, anything at all?
You should perhaps remember that dissidents of the Catholic Church would be burned as heretics, and the majority of people agreeing with you of which you speak, would have been burned at the stake, if they didn't.
It is very easy to show something doesn't exist, due diligence turning up nothing but Superman comics, (and some great films - with actors), for example.
But to show something does exist is even easier.
Can you show a single impact on reality that the Bible had that a 1st century comic-book could not?
Can you show a single work of carpentry by Jesus? A single bit of evidence of the thousands gathered to hear him preach? Any description of the afterlife by Lazarus? Any proof of the second most persuasive man (after Jesus), the man who returned from the dead? Anything, anything at all?
Post #64
No I dont think I can show anything to you Willum... If we had a piece of carpentry from Jesus, you would probably just say "how does that prove fairy tells" and proceed to dismiss it.
Both non believers and believers have consistently refuted the things you believe, with evidence, yet it is ignored by you... What good is any more evidence?
"proof", "evidence", "can you show....", i dont think these words have any meaning in a debate like this....
Both non believers and believers have consistently refuted the things you believe, with evidence, yet it is ignored by you... What good is any more evidence?
"proof", "evidence", "can you show....", i dont think these words have any meaning in a debate like this....
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Willum
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Post #65
[Replying to post 64 by Tart]
It would demonstrate that this man existed more than the three years vouched for in the Bible, when he was allegedly performing those fairy tales.
You haven't invoked anything like proof and so on, and indeed provided no explanations why very obvious easily demonstrable proofs or anything, don't exist.
How about Lazarus' description of the afterlife, that should be everywhere, all over the world, you know, the guy who came back from the dead, and lived afterwards?
Where is his testimony? - WHY DOESN'T LAZARUS HAVE A GOSPEL?
It would demonstrate that this man existed more than the three years vouched for in the Bible, when he was allegedly performing those fairy tales.
You haven't invoked anything like proof and so on, and indeed provided no explanations why very obvious easily demonstrable proofs or anything, don't exist.
How about Lazarus' description of the afterlife, that should be everywhere, all over the world, you know, the guy who came back from the dead, and lived afterwards?
Where is his testimony? - WHY DOESN'T LAZARUS HAVE A GOSPEL?
Post #66
How could we even prove to you that Lazarus wrote anything, even if we had a Gospel from him? Paul has many books and you dont believe he existed... What better would a book from Lazarus do?Willum wrote: [Replying to post 64 by Tart]
It would demonstrate that this man existed more than the three years vouched for in the Bible, when he was allegedly performing those fairy tales.
You haven't invoked anything like proof and so on, and indeed provided no explanations why very obvious easily demonstrable proofs or anything, don't exist.
How about Lazarus' description of the afterlife, that should be everywhere, all over the world, you know, the guy who came back from the dead, and lived afterwards?
Where is his testimony? - WHY DOESN'T LAZARUS HAVE A GOSPEL?
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Willum
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Post #67
[Replying to post 66 by Tart]
What good would the Book of Lazarus do?
It would tell us, for our own judgment, what is was like to be dead.
Were the story true, this is definitely something that would be recorded in history.
Even if it were a contemporary lie, Lazarus' testimony would be extant.
But it doesn't exist at all.
Since it doesn't exist at all, this is proof Lazarus did not exist, at least not as a man returned from the dead.
The other books, just make promises and declare unprovable hopes, the Book of Lazarus would have sent out ripples into eternity.
But it didn't.
Bluff called.
Hoax exposed.
Reality wins.
What good would the Book of Lazarus do?
It would tell us, for our own judgment, what is was like to be dead.
Were the story true, this is definitely something that would be recorded in history.
Even if it were a contemporary lie, Lazarus' testimony would be extant.
But it doesn't exist at all.
Since it doesn't exist at all, this is proof Lazarus did not exist, at least not as a man returned from the dead.
The other books, just make promises and declare unprovable hopes, the Book of Lazarus would have sent out ripples into eternity.
But it didn't.
Bluff called.
Hoax exposed.
Reality wins.
Last edited by Willum on Mon May 21, 2018 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post #68
If we had a book from Lazarus, how would we prove that to you?Willum wrote: [Replying to post 66 by Tart]
What good would the Book of Lazarus do?
It would tell us, for our own judgment, what is was like to be dead.
We the story true, this is definitely something that would be recorded in history.
Even if it were a contemporary lie, Lazarus' testimony would be extant.
But it doesn't exist at all.
Since it doesn't exist at all, this is proof Lazarus did not exist, at least not as a man returned from the dead.
The other books, just make promises ad declare unprovable hopes, the Book of Lazarus would have sent out ripples into eternity.
But it didn't.
Bluff called.
Hoax exposed.
Reality wins.
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Willum
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Post #69
[Replying to post 68 by Tart]
By not asking questions in "stump the dummy," routine, and answering some questions, or providing something, other then questions.
Or, in the next Bible I pick up, *poof* Book of Lazarus.
By not asking questions in "stump the dummy," routine, and answering some questions, or providing something, other then questions.
Or, in the next Bible I pick up, *poof* Book of Lazarus.
Post #70
Im not trying to stump you, its a simple question... You keep asking for a book from Lazarus, or piece of carpentry from Jesus...Willum wrote: [Replying to post 68 by Tart]
By not asking questions in "stump the dummy," routine, and answering some questions, or providing something, other then questions.
Or, in the next Bible I pick up, *poof* Book of Lazarus.
If we had those, how could we prove to you that we had them?
