According to the tales, Jesus gave up a weekend.

[Zzyzx]

.
According to the tales, Jesus gave up a weekend. Whats the big deal?

What is the sacrifice in a supposedly eternal being giving up a weekend being dead?

An 'omnipotent god' (or part thereof, or whatever is claimed) would presumably know that the 'death' was extremely temporary -- just a few hours (less than 48 according to the tale).

[Zzyzx]

.

Why only 'Luke' writing stories decades after the supposed event? Is it possible that he made up the tale?

It is possible that others didnt think it is that important to tell. I dont think Luke made up the tale, because I think there is no good motive for that.

If one is attempting to deify a Jew who became a preacher at age thirty or so and didn't last long, the blank for the period before taking up preaching might be partially filled in with a tall tale about a child teaching in the temple.

It partially answers "What did he do for 9/10 of his life?"

Wasn't there also a tale somewhere about child Jesus making live birds out of clay?

[1213]

Wasn't there also a tale somewhere about child Jesus making live birds out of clay?

I dont know about that, but I know for example this:

There are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they would all be written, I suppose that even the world itself wouldn't have room for the books that would be written.
John 21:25

Those who wrote the books, had to think what is the important message. And I think they did well. It would not be necessary to tell all. And actually, many dont read even this much, so if there would be more scriptures, I believe it wouldnt really help in delivering the Gospel.

[OnceConvinced]

In my experience its the Christians making this claim.

Personal anecdotes carry no weight here...

You made a claim and did not back it up. It's not the atheists who claim that Jesus suffered more than anyone else every has when he died on the cross. Why would an atheist claim that?

Of course they wouldn't. This is a claim made by Chrisitans. Do you dispute that?

[OnceConvinced]

Why only 'Luke' writing stories decades after the supposed event? Is it possible that he made up the tale?

It is possible that others didnt think it is that important to tell. I dont think Luke made up the tale, because I think there is no good motive for that.

Why do Christians continually try to justify the horrors of the bible god? Why do they try to make out he's loving and caring when the bible quite clearly shows us he's not? There's always a good excuse, isn't there?

When people believe something strongly enough they'll do and say anything to get others on their side.

Luke could have had many reasons why he would make up stories like that. Why he would exagerate or even blatantly lie. Christians do it all the time. We see that regularly. Not just Christians either. In fact we see entire religions made up based on lies. And often it's for money, fame or power. Many different reasons. Why should we believe that Luke was any more righteous than any other person trying to promote a religion?

[1213]

...Why do Christians continually try to justify the horrors of the bible god? Why do they try to make out he's loving and caring when the bible quite clearly shows us he's not?

If God ends evil, I dont think that is horror. But I understand that this is a matter of opinion. And if you think it is horror, then I accept that as your opinion. I dont think God is evil or bad, even if He judges evil people to death. And actually, if He would allow evil to continue forever, I think that would more likely be evil and not loving.

... even blatantly lie. Christians do it all the time...

Please show one example of Christian lie?

...And often it's for money, fame or power. Many different reasons. Why should we believe that Luke was any more righteous than any other person trying to promote a religion?

Because there seems to be no earthly benefit for him.

[OnceConvinced]

And actually, if He would allow evil to continue forever, I think that would more likely be evil and not loving.

Evil is still here and it doesn't look as though it's going away any time soon.

Please show one example of Christian lie?

I can show many.

Here's one that's been a big deal here in New Zealand recently. Brian Tamaki a well known evangelist, church leader here has made false claims about how his "man up" program for prisons was ignored by the governeent. The thing is he had never even gone through the correct processes.

And this is a guy who started up a political party a few years ago making a prophecy that it would be in power within 5 years. It never happened. Now he's trying again for the next election.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics ... amaki.html

But if that's not good enough for you:
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pious_fraud
Look down at "more recent Christian deceit".
It's very damning stuff.

And what about Mike Warnke a famous Christian comedian who lied about being a satanist priest? (he's not the only one). I mentioned him recently in a post. Here's more on his deceit:
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Mike_Warnke

...And often it's for money, fame or power. Many different reasons. Why should we believe that Luke was any more righteous than any other person trying to promote a religion?

Because there seems to be no earthly benefit for him.

Power. Fame. And who knows how much money he was given by people. Pastors and evangelists these days make a fortune, so it may have been the same back then.

He's well known even 2000 years later. He's left a lasting legacy. What more could a mortal human ask for?

He probably would have been like a celebrity back then, much like Jesus. Travelling around being treated like royalty.

Being a respected Christian leader he probably had a lot of women vying for his attention. It's very common in churches. Men who appear to be super spiritual and knowledeable of the bible get the chicks.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 15 by JehovahsWitness]

So the ransom sacrifice is effective as a counterbalance to a literal Adam. What if the Adam and Eve story was myth? What happens to Paul's ransom theology then? That is if Christ was "only" a martyr and not the 2nd Adam?

[Zzyzx]

.

What if the Adam and Eve story was myth?

If the A&E story is myth doesn't the whole house of cards start down?

Flood myth
Exodus myth
Moses myth
Messiah myth
Resurrection myth

If key Bible stories are myths, what of value is left? An occasional wise word even if by accident or plagiarism?

How would / could anyone find authentic information about the 'Biblical God' if such thing existed?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 67 by Elijah John]

We KNOW Moses was a myth.
That means we KNOW Jesus is a myth.
This would lead the reasonable to suspect that it is all a myth.

Since the story involves, talking snakes and global floods that left no evidence. we now KNOW it is all a myth.

At least the reasonable.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 15 by JehovahsWitness]

So the ransom sacrifice is effective as a counterbalance to a literal Adam. What if the Adam and Eve story was myth? What happens to Paul's ransom theology then? That is if Christ was "only" a martyr and not the 2nd Adam?

And therein lies the problem of taking a "dung and diamond approach" to the bible. If the Genesis account is a myth, Jesus death carries no lasting benefit for mankind and the central message of Christianity (that Jesus died to save humanity from sin and death) is a lie. Someone that believes Adam and Eve is a myth cannot accept Christ as their savior (because there is nothing to save us from).

Calling Calling the ransom "Paul's ransom theology" may be comforting to those (not YOU I'm sure this is not the case for you as an individual, but it may be the case for someone else somewhere in the world that isn't you) that don't want to accept that the death of Jesus as more than just a good man, but as "The lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world" is the foundation of true Christianity.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:19

If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are to be pitied more than anyone

In short "Paul's ransom theology" doesnt crumble, Christianity (as more than a humanitarian "hobbie") crumbles. So your question is a good one as it highlights how those (not you, but some others that are not you) that decide their own jugdement surpasses that of Almighty God can have no real faith at all. It is an "all or nothing" thing because "some" is biblically speaking nothing, nothing at all!

Good question,


JW




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