Why does atheism have a suicide problem?

[EarthScienceguy]

Depression is a serious problem with in the greater atheist community and far too often, that depression has led to suicide. This is something many of my fellow atheists often dont like to admit, but it is true. I know a lot of atheists, myself included, would all like to believe that atheists are happier people than religious believers and in many ways we are. But we also have to accept the reality that in some very important ways we are not.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/atheism- ... ec613b812b

[Jagella]

Amazing story Jagella. I might be anti abortion and anti euthenasia but to be perfectly honest I've never been tested. My kid is good and my parents don't annoy me much

One of the problems I see with those who advocate euthanasia is that many of them argue from hypothetical situations. I can argue from real-life experience. So in that way I see that I have an advantage.

I think my story illustrates both why people might seek to be euthanized and why it's a potential mistake to go through with it. Nobody can tell me that I can't empathize with those who presumably would benefit from euthanasia because I've been there.

[Tcg]

I think my story illustrates both why people might seek to be euthanized and why it's a potential mistake to go through with it. Nobody can tell me that I can't empathize with those who presumably would benefit from euthanasia because I've been there.

As with so many determinations, it comes down to a matter of degree. I too have faced the "to be or not to be" question. I am against suicide in almost all situation. However, I think there are limits.

My sister was suffering from incurable cancer and was in hospice care. She had no hope of survival and faced excruciating pain on a daily basis. She choose to stop eating and therefore did not live as long as she could have.

She died perhaps only a few days, weeks at the longest, than she would have if she continued to eat. Was this suicide? Undoubtedly. Should she have been forbidden this option? I don't think so.

This is clearly a very different case than someone committing suicide due to depression. No matter how bleak, there is always the hope of improvement. There was none in my sister's case.


Tcg

[Jagella]

As with so many determinations, it comes down to a matter of degree. I too have faced the "to be or not to be" question. I am against suicide in almost all situation. However, I think there are limits.

My sister was suffering from incurable cancer and was in hospice care. She had no hope of survival and faced excruciating pain on a daily basis. She choose to stop eating and therefore did not live as long as she could have.

She died perhaps only a few days, weeks at the longest, than she would have if she continued to eat. Was this suicide? Undoubtedly. Should she have been forbidden this option? I don't think so.

This is clearly a very different case than someone committing suicide due to depression. No matter how bleak, there is always the hope of improvement. There was none in my sister's case.

I'm against force-feeding or forcing any kind of medical procedures on an unwilling person.

The problem with these kinds of stories--with all due respect--is that they are filtered through a third party, in this case yourself. Such "filtering" inevitably will result in a certain amount of distortion. I'd prefer to hear directly from the people who presumably want to die. Let them speak for themselves and tell us what they want rather than have somebody else tell us what they want.

And we arrive at one of the biggest problems with euthanasia. The people who clamor for it tend to be the friends and relatives of the dying or the sick rather than the dying or the sick themselves. If those who are sick really want to be euthanized, then it might help for them to organize and lobby speaking for themselves if they wish to die. But the reality appears to be different. Many disabled people are very opposed to euthanasia seeing it as a threat to their lives and have organized against euthanasia and not for it.

Contact Not Dead Yet for more information.

[Jagella]

You have to presuppose it is murder to call the doctor an accomplice. You brought up the idea that it matters whose finger is on the button. I simply accepted that idea and let the patient do it, in which case the doctor is absolved.

Just in case you plan to act on something like you are describing here, in many states you can get into big trouble assisting a suicide or even encouraging a suicide. To do so is a felony that can earn you prison time.

And I think it's a travesty for someone who wants to live to starve, so that resources can be forced on someone who doesn't want them.

I'm opposed to anybody having anything forced on them. That's one of the main reasons I object to euthanasia--it's not always voluntary.

When everyone is fed by these other ways, we can talk about forcing people to live who don't want to without the valid objection of resource limitation, but as of now, one suicide is one unhappy life gone, freeing up resources for someone who will be happy not to starve to death.

So "their lives are not worth living." You are by no means the first to judge the lives of the disabled that way, and you are not the first to complain of the resources they take up.

When that is done, then we can talk about forcing people to live who don't want to without the objection of it making other people healthier and happier. I don't have enough money to build a larger hospice. Do you?

Of course not, but who said you must pay for a better hospice? I think we as a society can offer the dying better hospice care. In so doing, there should be a significant decrease in the number of people who presumably want to die.

But let's not force people to live who don't want to, since it means less resources for those who want to live.

What makes you so sure people want to die? I think it's best to listen to those who may feel that way rather than those who claim to speak for them.

In the context of this discussion, we are seeing that there apparently is a "suicide problem" among atheists. I suppose it's one issue I must side with Christians on. Not everything they say is incorrect or bad.

[Purple Knight]

Just in case you plan to act on something like you are describing here, in many states you can get into big trouble assisting a suicide or even encouraging a suicide. To do so is a felony that can earn you prison time.

I follow the law. I hope we're debating what should be, not what is. Just FYI, if I had a dollar for every time someone told me to kill myself, I'd be a very rich man.

I'm opposed to anybody having anything forced on them. That's one of the main reasons I object to euthanasia--it's not always voluntary.

If it's not voluntary it's murder, which of course I am also opposed to.

So "their lives are not worth living." You are by no means the first to judge the lives of the disabled that way, and you are not the first to complain of the resources they take up.

I'm not complaining of resources being "wasted" on the handicapped. What I said has nothing to do with who is handicapped and who isn't.

My argument is about resources being better spent on people who want to live as opposed to those who don't. If the person who wants to live is the handicapped one and the one who wants to bow out is able-bodied, so be it. Either way, resources aren't infinite, and people are starving. One suicide = one person who doesn't have to starve.

Of course not, but who said you must pay for a better hospice? I think we as a society can offer the dying better hospice care. In so doing, there should be a significant decrease in the number of people who presumably want to die.

Somebody has to pay for it. The argument comes back to resources, and resources aren't infinite.

You say there are easy ways to make sure everyone gets enough resources? Well they require multiple people helping, and the requisite numbers of people aren't helping.

Suicide is a way for just one person to help all the rest get enough by simply ceasing to consume resources.

What makes you so sure people want to die? I think it's best to listen to those who may feel that way rather than those who claim to speak for them.

So do I. That's what I'm advocating: If someone doesn't want to live, listen to them and don't force them to live.

[Tcg]

The problem with these kinds of stories--with all due respect--is that they are filtered through a third party, in this case yourself. Such "filtering" inevitably will result in a certain amount of distortion. I'd prefer to hear directly from the people who presumably want to die. Let them speak for themselves and tell us what they want rather than have somebody else tell us what they want.

My sister spoke quite loudly by her actions. She obviously wanted to die and choose to do so. No one spoke for her, she spoke for herself.


Tcg

[Bust Nak]

I think my story illustrates both why people might seek to be euthanized and why it's a potential mistake to go through with it.

You say potential mistake here, does that mean you accept that in certain cases it is not a mistake?

And if so, why do you want to take that option away from these instances?

If those who are sick really want to be euthanized, then it might help for them to organize and lobby speaking for themselves if they wish to die.

They do, is it really so problematic that they want people who are healthy and don't currently want to be euthanized to help them in their campaign?

[Jagella]

The problem with these kinds of stories--with all due respect--is that they are filtered through a third party, in this case yourself. Such "filtering" inevitably will result in a certain amount of distortion. I'd prefer to hear directly from the people who presumably want to die. Let them speak for themselves and tell us what they want rather than have somebody else tell us what they want.

My sister spoke quite loudly by her actions. She obviously wanted to die and choose to do so. No one spoke for her, she spoke for herself.

Again, I'd prefer to hear directly from the person in question who presumably wants to die.

[Tcg]

The problem with these kinds of stories--with all due respect--is that they are filtered through a third party, in this case yourself. Such "filtering" inevitably will result in a certain amount of distortion. I'd prefer to hear directly from the people who presumably want to die. Let them speak for themselves and tell us what they want rather than have somebody else tell us what they want.

My sister spoke quite loudly by her actions. She obviously wanted to die and choose to do so. No one spoke for her, she spoke for herself.

Again, I'd prefer to hear directly from the person in question who presumably wants to die.

For obvious reasons, in my sister's case, you can't. What evidence would you require to convince you that someone who intentionally committed suicide wanted to die?


Tcg

[Jagella]

I hope we're debating what should be, not what is.

Trying to change the law on suicide is always an option if you disagree with the current laws. Until then, we should obey the law as is.

...if I had a dollar for every time someone told me to kill myself, I'd be a very rich man.

That's terrible! I've had people tell me to commit suicide too. Is your being treated that way a factor in your supporting suicide?

I'm not complaining of resources being "wasted" on the handicapped. What I said has nothing to do with who is handicapped and who isn't.

So you approve of anybody committing suicide. Does that include close friends and family members?

My argument is about resources being better spent on people who want to live as opposed to those who don't. If the person who wants to live is the handicapped one and the one who wants to bow out is able-bodied, so be it.

OK, but it's important to understand that the disabled are often seen as wanting to die. This view is often presented as a rationale for euthanizing the disabled.

Either way, resources aren't infinite, and people are starving. One suicide = one person who doesn't have to starve.

If you want to free-up resources, then another option is genocide. Genocide will have the same effect as euthanasia by freeing-up resources like food. The fewer people alive--the more food available for the lucky few who live on.

You say there are easy ways to make sure everyone gets enough resources?

I don't know how easy it may be to assure that everybody gets what they need, but obviously we should try.

Suicide is a way for just one person to help all the rest get enough by simply ceasing to consume resources.

Another option is to have suicidal people live on to help people get the resources they need. The more people living, the more people who can assist others!

If someone doesn't want to live, listen to them and don't force them to live.

I'm not forcing anybody to do anything. I'm just expressing my disapproval of euthanasia. And if I do encounter a person who wants to die, then I will try to talk them out of it.