Is the Christian world view really one of hope?

[TruthSeeker1]

Christians on this site and elsewhere continually preach the idea that the Christian religion is one of hope. Many go so far as to say that those who are not Christian have no hope, only with the Christian viewpoint can one have a hopeful life.

The Christian has to accept that while he may be "saved", many others including non-believing family members and friends are destined for an eternity of torment. Does it really bring more "hope" for Christians to know that a few will enjoy eternal bliss while billions of others including most of the world's impoverished will be eternally tortured?

The question for debate: Is it really honest to call the Christian belief system one of hope?

[4gold]

What is this belief in hope you are referring to? I have already explained that it is easy to believe in hope, seeing as we all experience it. An atheist is allowed to hope for whatever they want to. How about this one - I hope with all my heart for world peace in my lifetime but I do not believe it will happen.

I think it is understood that atheists do not believe in life after death. This has nothing whatsoever to do with hope in my opinion.

I'm afraid that I can only find so many ways of explaining the same thing. The words hope and belief are not, as I understand them, interchangeable.

I really don't know what to say. I'm not sure where we are crossing our wires. I do not believe I am interchanging belief and hope.

A Christian's hopes are based on his beliefs, and an atheist's lack of hope is based on his beliefs. Belief and hope are not the same.

A Christian worldview offers hope for the afterlife. An atheistic worldview cannot offer hope for the afterlife.

[Fallibleone]

What is this belief in hope you are referring to? I have already explained that it is easy to believe in hope, seeing as we all experience it. An atheist is allowed to hope for whatever they want to. How about this one - I hope with all my heart for world peace in my lifetime but I do not believe it will happen.

I think it is understood that atheists do not believe in life after death. This has nothing whatsoever to do with hope in my opinion.

I'm afraid that I can only find so many ways of explaining the same thing. The words hope and belief are not, as I understand them, interchangeable.

I really don't know what to say. I'm not sure where we are crossing our wires. I do not believe I am interchanging belief and hope.

A Christian's hopes are based on his beliefs, and an atheist's lack of hope is based on his beliefs. Belief and hope are not the same.

A Christian worldview offers hope for the afterlife. An atheistic worldview cannot offer hope for the afterlife.

Where we are crossing our wires is that you are stating that an atheist is not allowed to have hope in the afterlife. I am condtradicting this by saying that an atheist can have hope without believing it will come true.

You are saying you are not interchanging belief and hope, I say that you are, because you are confusing hope in something with belief in something. I agree that a Christian's hopes are based on his beliefs. It does not necessarily follow, however, that an atheist's lack of hope is based on his beliefs. As I have been arguing, atheists are permitted to hope.

You talk about believing in hope, which seems pointless, since what would be the sense of not believing in something which is a daily occurrence? I think that hope is outside the remit of atheism but belief is not.

To say that atheism does not offer hope of the afterlife is not the same thing as saying that atheists cannot hope there is one.

I've come to the conclusion that I'm not arguing very well.

Perhaps I should start a separate thread.

[BozzyB]

I tend to use the definition as atheists describe themselves.

"As there is no scientific evidence for supernatural phenomena, atheists reject belief in 'God', gods and other supernatural beings. The universe, the world in which we live, and the evolution of life, are entirely natural occurrences.

But their deffinition of atheism is clearly different from Mr. Websters, so who do we agree with?

I hate to sidetrack this thread and raise an old issue, but Hitler described himself as a christian. Would it be fair to use the deffinition of christian as he described himself?

No, personally, I think it would be safer to go with the dictionary deffintion.

Although, I can understand how atheism is often extended to all of the supernatural as well. Even I tend to do that!





BozzyB

[4gold]

To say that atheism does not offer hope of the afterlife is not the same thing as saying that atheists cannot hope there is one.

This is where we are crossing our wires.

If an atheist believes there is no afterlife, why can he hope for one?

Isn't that like me saying that I do not believe in Santa, but I can hope he stops by my house this Christmas?

[Fallibleone]

As I have previously said, it is like saying 'I hope I win the lottery, but I do not believe that I will', or 'I hope with all my heart to see world peace in my lifetime, but I do not believe that it will happen'.

I have started a thread on whether one can hope without belief. I say one can.

[4gold]

But their deffinition of atheism is clearly different from Mr. Websters, so who do we agree with?

Webster deals with lexicography. The Atheist Foundation deals with the way the word is commonly used.

For example, Webster defines Christianity as "the religion derived from Jesus Christ , based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies". But would anyone have a problem if we said that in order to be a Christian, you must believe in God? The definition doesn't say anything about God, but it is nonetheless an accurate description of Christians.

I hate to sidetrack this thread and raise an old issue, but Hitler described himself as a christian. Would it be fair to use the deffinition of christian as he described himself?

No, personally, I think it would be safer to go with the dictionary deffintion.

Although, I can understand how atheism is often extended to all of the supernatural as well. Even I tend to do that!

To be fair, Hitler was a Christian until 1939. Sometime by the time the Final Solution began in 1941, he developed some weird Nietzchean philosophy that became his worldview.

[4gold]

As I have previously said, it is like saying 'I hope I win the lottery, but I do not believe that I will', or 'I hope with all my heart to see world peace in my lifetime, but I do not believe that it will happen'.

I have started a thread on whether one can hope without belief. I say one can.

I agree that one can have hope without belief. But I do not agree that one can have hope of something one does not believe exists.

You believe the lottery can be won. You just don't believe you will win it.

You believe world peace is possible. You just don't believe it will happen.

But I think this is different than having hope in something you don't even believe exists or is a possibility.

[Fallibleone]

I have started a new thread, because we are taking this one off topic.

P.S. I do not believe that world peace is possible, just to clear that up.

[Goat]

no where does God promise any hope for those who reject Christ. He plainly says it is the ONLY hope, putting your faith in Jesus as God's Son and accepting His death and resurrection as your salvation and eternal life. Reject this and you are correct.....there is no hope.

I thank God that is not true.

For that matter, any passage you quote in your own bible can be shown to have a different interpretation (by other Christian sources), that your claim.

[Easyrider]

To be fair, Hitler was a Christian until 1939. Sometime by the time the Final Solution began in 1941, he developed some weird Nietzchean philosophy that became his worldview.

I doubt Hitler was ever a real Christian. Going to a Christian church or a Catholic school doesn't make anyone a Christian anymore than going to a garage makes one an automobile.