Why do christians believe in god?

[kilese]

I want to know how, in this modern world, people still worship a god. I don't know about anyone else, but I can't even try to believe it. I see no logic in it at all, to believe in a magical being that lives in the clouds. You can't possibly truly believe in it all. If you do, then humans are more clueless than i thought. Why worship someone who lets children starve everyday? If he has the power to stop it, and doesn't, then he is malevolent. But if he doesn't have the power, he is not a god. And if god created freewill and is omnipotent, then he would already know about all the horrible things in the world that would happen, and could have stopped it. And if he's omnipotent, whats the point of praying? Your prayers would have already been heard. And no one's prayers have been answered, so he is not worth worshiping, and therefore, is not a god. I'm not try to attack anyone, i just can't understand how anyone can believe all this.

[micatala]

Moderator Intervention

Therefore anyone who claims to be an Atheist is really a fool with no thinking skills who wants to believe they are right and prefers to believe that all who believe in God are the fools.

This comment is bordering on uncivil. There is no need to refer to other members or groups as fools in civil debate.

[micatala]

Moderator Comment

I want to know how, in this modern world, people still worship a god. I don't know about anyone else, but I can't even try to believe it. I see no logic in it at all, to believe in a magical being that lives in the clouds. You can't possibly truly believe in it all. If you do, then humans are more clueless than i thought. Why worship someone who lets children starve everyday? If he has the power to stop it, and doesn't, then he is malevolent. But if he doesn't have the power, he is not a god. And if god created freewill and is omnipotent, then he would already know about all the horrible things in the world that would happen, and could have stopped it. And if he's omnipotent, whats the point of praying? Your prayers would have already been heard. And no one's prayers have been answered, so he is not worth worshiping, and therefore, is not a god. I'm not try to attack anyone, i just can't understand how anyone can believe all this.

The questions here are fine, but please avoid reading into the minds of others and referring to them as "clueless".

[I AM ALL I AM]

G'day Skyangel.

I note the use of the words "might" and "if". In response, what you propose "might" be true "if" you ignored what the bible actually states, as in the above passages, which are only two among many.

The whole point is that any statement can be perceived as true or false or both true and false depending on the perception/s of the person/s looking at it and judging it to be either true or false. The truth of that principle can be seen in the bible stories themselves where Jesus spoke the Truth and was considered to be a liar by many and was considered to be truthful by others.
The fact is that very few can really recognize the truth when they are faced with it. Many people call the Truth a lie because they simply don't like the looks of it or hate what they are hearing and don't want to hear it.

Using "The whole point" to preface your statement doesn't make it "The whole point", no matter how much you wish it would. It isn't an individuals "perception" that determines whether something is true or not. The truth is a self-evident observation free of subjective rationalisations and descriptions thrust upon it from individuals with an agenda to distort it to their world view/belief system.

They would be contradicting their religious text, which for christians is the bible. Such as his quote ...

Exodus 20:3 (KJV) "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

You could interpret that scripture as saying you may have other gods as long as you don't place them before the Lord or put them first in your life.

However, look at this scripture which indicates that there is no other God but one.

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any].

If there is no God/god but one God then no man can possibly have any other god before the One who exists, can they? If they do, they are suffering from a strong delusion and deceiving themselves.

You either believe in God or you don't. The one God who does exist is the culmination of ALL.

There are many 'God' like figure in mythology that claim supremacy in the religious texts of those that worship them. While this might be comforting to those followers of that particular religion, it doesn't make their claims factual.

A belief in each and every 'God' that claims supremacy is contradictory as the claims of the adherents of any particular 'God's' supremacy are in direct contradiction of the claims of another adherents claim of their 'God' having supremacy. Thus, believing in all 'God's' would in and of itself be a contradictory belief based upon the claims of the religious texts and the claims of the adherents.

Also, can you provide any evidence for any deity at all ?

I AM evidence of a deity.
The definition of a deity is "any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force"
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=deity

My husband worships me.

Claims of someone worshipping you does not count as evidence for any deity. At most, it can be concluded that your "husband" is delusional.

How can you claim to know what is "very real in someones imagination" ?

From experiencing things that once appeared real in my own imagination. I grew up and grew out of these imaginations but I still understand those who have not grown up yet and still believe their own fantasies are real things in the same way children believe Santa Claus is real.

This in no way shows how you know what is "very real in someones imagination".

What it is showing is that you imagine that it does. While you are freely entitled to imagine what ever you choose to imagine, your imagination doesn't count as evidence to the claims that you are making.

Do you have special powers to be able to view another's imagination ?

Yes, in my own imagination and experience.

Again, your imagination doesn't count as evidence to the claims that you are making.

Or are you only relying upon another's words, even though their actions may not back up what it is they are claiming with the words that they utter ?

No, I simply understand that all people go through much the same things and experience similar emotions, temptations and imaginations regardless of how they react towards their own imaginations or the suggestions of other people.
The human mind and imagination is a mysterious thing.

Are children in Africa that are being persecuted as witches by evangelical christians going "through much the same things" as you went through growing up ?

Your claim of "The human mind and imagination is a mysterious thing" is contrary to your claims of special powers in recognising what is in another's imagination, unless you are also claiming to have discovered the "mysterious thing" that you claim "The human mind and imagination is".

Is it a "mysterious thing" and you don't know what it is ?

Or is it a "mysterious thing" and your special powers that have discovered what this "mysterious thing" is ?

If it is your special powers, can you offer evidence to your special powers that are quantifiable and verifiable through the rigours of repetition and experimentation ?

Have you ever been able to "touch and see" the christian 'God' that is described in the religious text known of as the bible ?

Yes, I look at the great " I AM " n the mirror every day. The mirror shows me a reflection of the "I AM". I can touch that reflection and also touch the one causing that reflection.

This is not the christian 'God' described in the religious text known of as the bible.

It is also a misrepresentation, unless you are claiming that you are your physical body, in which case I ask you to show incontrovertible evidence proving that you are indeed your physical body.

Do you have any evidence to show that it is other than a collection of writings of men ?

No.

Thank you for the honest response.

Therefore, any claims of it being other than the writings of men would be fallacious in nature and it is no more note worthy than what is written in The Lord of the Rings. Thus the content should be regarded with equal incredulity as the claims of the characters made within The Lord of the Rings.

With your commentary of, "Any Atheist who believes in themselves believes in a god who is themself. They are their own god.", you show a lack of comprehension in the defintion of what is an "Atheist". Is this intentionally done to further the premise that you put forth ?

It is intentionally done to make any atheist ask themselves whether they believe in themselves and follow their own moral rules or not. If they do then are they not their own god? If they admit they are then they believe in a god (themselves ) and can no longer claim to be an Atheist.
If people are truthful and honest with themselves they cannot claim to be an Atheist at all. No Atheist exists in reality because anyone who is honest with themselves will admit they do believe in themselves and do follow their own rules.

I believe that it is this line of mental gymnastics that gave rise to the incredulity expressed in the OP.

Your admission shows that you have purposefully misrepresented something to further your own ideology.

Claims of "If people are truthful and honest with themselves" in relationship with the misrepresentation that you have used shows hypocrisy, as you have not held yourself up to the same standard by intentionally using a misrepresentation.

[Skyangel]

It isn't an individuals "perception" that determines whether something is true or not. The truth is a self-evident observation free of subjective rationalisations and descriptions thrust upon it from individuals with an agenda to distort it to their world view/belief system.

I agree that truth remains truth no matter what anyone thinks about it or how they perceive it. However when people speak words of truth they can be perceived as lies by others. This tells me that many people cannot distinguish the truth from lies.

There are many 'God' like figure in mythology that claim supremacy in the religious texts of those that worship them. While this might be comforting to those followers of that particular religion, it doesn't make their claims factual.

A belief in each and every 'God' that claims supremacy is contradictory as the claims of the adherents of any particular 'God's' supremacy are in direct contradiction of the claims of another adherents claim of their 'God' having supremacy. Thus, believing in all 'God's' would in and of itself be a contradictory belief based upon the claims of the religious texts and the claims of the adherents.

I see the word "God" as a plural word in the sense that it is relating to more than one thing at all times. I do not see the word God as applying to any one individual divinity. I perceive the word in the same way I perceive the words Family or Group. Those words bring to mind more than one being. The bible describes God as ALL. When you read the word ALL, do you perceive only one thing or only one being? The many god like figures in mythology are obviously fictional.

Claims of someone worshipping you does not count as evidence for any deity. At most, it can be concluded that your "husband" is delusional.

I find that amusing. It's a shame you did not see the humor in my post.

This is not the christian 'God' described in the religious text known of as the bible.

It is also a misrepresentation, unless you are claiming that you are your physical body, in which case I ask you to show incontrovertible evidence proving that you are indeed your physical body.

My physical body is currently part of me. I am in my body just as you are in yours.
Your reflection, my reflection and anyone elses reflection is indeed a reflection of the image of the Christian God since God made mankind in His image. We are part of the physical body of God on this earth.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Thank you for the honest response.

Therefore, any claims of it being other than the writings of men would be fallacious in nature and it is no more note worthy than what is written in The Lord of the Rings. Thus the content should be regarded with equal incredulity as the claims of the characters made within The Lord of the Rings.

You may perceive it in the same way as a fiction if you wish. I do know many people do and I totally understand why they do. The way people see things is the way they see things and no one else can do much about it other than try to explain a different point of view. Those who can see all points of view have a better understanding of the subject than those who remain narrow minded and refuse to look at things any other way than what they have been taught.
The bible is the kind of book which can be perceived both as a fiction as well as the Truth. The reason for this is because it is full of parables and metaphors and poetry and words which appear to be one thing on outward appearances but have another meaning behind the scenes. It is like a magic trick. The Truth is hidden behind the "curtain". It is far more than just a fictional book like The Lord of the Rings.

[Flail]

Skyangel wrote:

I agree that truth remains truth no matter what anyone thinks about it or how they perceive it. However when people speak words of truth they can be perceived as lies by others. This tells me that many people cannot distinguish the truth from lies.

How do you distinguish the 'truth about a god' from 'lies about a god'? Do you utilize verifiable evidence or religious promotional material?

Skyangel wrote:

There are many 'God' like figure in mythology that claim supremacy in the religious texts of those that worship them. While this might be comforting to those followers of that particular religion, it doesn't make their claims factual.

I agree. Do you make any truth claims about a 'god' and if so, what makes your claims 'factual'?

Skyangel wrote:

The many god like figures in mythology are obviously fictional.

What distinguishes the god of the bible from gods of mythology?

Skyangel wrote:

Your reflection, my reflection and anyone elses reflection is indeed a reflection of the image of the Christian God since God made mankind in His image. We are part of the physical body of God on this earth.

Upon what verifable evidence do you claim the truth of this observation?

Skyangel wrote:

The bible is the kind of book which can be perceived both as a fiction as well as the Truth. The reason for this is because it is full of parables and metaphors and poetry and words which appear to be one thing on outward appearances but have another meaning behind the scenes. It is like a magic trick. The Truth is hidden behind the "curtain". It is far more than just a fictional book like The Lord of the Rings.

Upon what basis do you separate 'fact from fiction'?

[I AM ALL I AM]

I agree that truth remains truth no matter what anyone thinks about it or how they perceive it.

Excfellent. Then we can agree that subjective rationalisations used to prop up belief systems do not count as truth and are useless as a defence except in maintaining the individuals delusions.

I see the word "God" as a plural word in the sense that it is relating to more than one thing at all times. I do not see the word God as applying to any one individual divinity. I perceive the word in the same way I perceive the words Family or Group. Those words bring to mind more than one being. The bible describes God as ALL. When you read the word ALL, do you perceive only one thing or only one being? The many god like figures in mythology are obviously fictional.

Thank you for describing your perception, though I am wondering what this has to do with the point that I made.

The bible describes many things, though as we have established, it is the writings of men and is therefore no more noteworthy than any other writings of men. The attachment of the word "ALL" as being descriptive of the 'God' of the bible has no validity outside of the context of the story within the bible, which is a subjective description appended by men with an agenda to accomplish.

My physical body is currently part of me. I am in my body just as you are in yours.
Your reflection, my reflection and anyone elses reflection is indeed a reflection of the image of the Christian God since God made mankind in His image. We are part of the physical body of God on this earth.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Your physical body is made up of cells that are fully replaced over a seven year period. Anyone that is over seven years of age does not have the same body that they were born with.

Now, in consideration of this, how can you determine that you are "in" your "body" ?

Do you have any verifiable evidence that shows that the essence that you are is "in" your "body" ?

Is there any verifiable evidence that show that you are indeed made in 'God's' image ?

For that matter, how can both a female form and a male form be made "in His image" ?

If we agree with the attachment of the use of "His" to 'God', then 'God' is a male and as such no female could be made in "His image".

It is far more than just a fictional book like The Lord of the Rings.

What evidence do you have that can be verified that makes your claim truthful ?

You have agreed that the bible was written by men. Were these men something "more" than J.R.R. Tolkein ?

If so, please provide verifiable evidence that shows your assertion.

If not, then your statement is a fallacy.

[Angel]

I want to know how, in this modern world, people still worship a god. I don't know about anyone else, but I can't even try to believe it. I see no logic in it at all, to believe in a magical being that lives in the clouds. You can't possibly truly believe in it all. If you do, then humans are more clueless than i thought.

Having a modern understanding of the world has only shaped my belief in God but it has not led me discard it. NOw I have the more ability to make more informed decisions in distinguishing between man/nature and God, rather than falling into superstition (unreasonable/exaggerated belief in supernatural) and more commonly ignored is an unreasonable/exaggerated view of nature (maybe I should call this overnaturalistic? - thinking that every single thing is of nature/physical and can only be natural/physical). You may also be referring to modern technology but I still find religion as being relevant/useful to our modern society since religion promotes morality, love for fellow man, and hope beyond troubling circumstances like the 9/11 terrorist attacks. All of these things technology does not establish and God-belief in this area and technology are for the most part two separate aspects of our life and I don’t see how or why they have to cancel out each other.

Why worship someone who lets children starve everyday? If he has the power to stop it, and doesn't, then he is malevolent. But if he doesn't have the power, he is not a god.

I don't know the reasons for this, but this is only a matter of God's morality and not His power since He can have power but yet choose not to use it. It's obviously not God's standards to keep everyone fed in a satisfactory way, so your question/objection may be due to unreasonable expectations on your part. In other words, does God have to feed everyone or has He promised that? Has He given us the power to feed ourselves? Did He cause these children to starve?

And if god created freewill and is omnipotent, then he would already know about all the horrible things in the world that would happen, and could have stopped it. And if he's omnipotent, whats the point of praying? Your prayers would have already been heard. And no one's prayers have been answered, so he is not worth worshiping, and therefore, is not a god.

God is omniscient and therefore knows all of our prayers even before we utter them, but God wants us to pray because we experience life by doing things in time. We're not omniscient nor do we know everything that we'll ever need help with since we're not like God, so one way we can interact with God is by praying. That's only redundant from God's vantage since with us that's the way we experience things and God has to at times interact/relate to us on our level.

I'm not try to attack anyone, i just can't understand how anyone can believe all this.

I will be the first Christian to admit that I don't accept everything in the Bible as being accurate. I don't accept those areas of it that have been proven false beyond a doubt. However, it's the positive sides that still attracts me. Although God does not answer every prayer and there's still evil in the world, I still see some answered prayers, I still see some good, I've had my own supernatural experiences and people still have them today, and I can only hope that all this will lead up to a "greater good" and the end time promise mentioned in the Bible- that is, eventually there won't be any more suffering so hopefully this problem of evil will be solved by God even if I don't know why or how it started and if God is to blame, etc.

[Flail]

Angel wrote:

I will be the first Christian to admit that I don't accept everything in the Bible as being accurate.

On what basis do you discern which parts are true and which are false?

Angel wrote:

Although God does not answer every prayer and there's still evil in the world, I still see some answered prayers,...

A flipped coin will answer a prayer about half the time.

[Crazy Ivan]

(...)rather than falling into superstition (unreasonable/exaggerated belief in supernatural)(...)

Notions maintained despite evidence to the contrary constitute "superstition". Any "supernatural" belief you may hold is, to me, "unreasonable" and "exaggerated".

You may also be referring to modern technology but I still find religion as being relevant/useful to our modern society since religion promotes morality, love for fellow man, and hope beyond troubling circumstances like the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

We need to promote these notions, just as much as any other social animal needs "promotion" to protect their young, or to behave in an analogously "moral" way, as many animals do.

All of these things technology does not establish and God-belief in this area and technology are for the most part two separate aspects of our life and I don’t see how or why they have to cancel out each other.

For instance, technology has allowed us to see just how fortuitous people's lives really are. "Good things" and "bad things" happen to everybody, and we can clearly see this on a global scale now. Yet some folks still claim earthquakes are brought about by female promiscuity. Knowledge that one lives in a rift zone helps dissipate such beliefs. Gods gets more intangible, and their "intervention" less likely, the more knowledge of the natural world we acquire.

God is omniscient and therefore knows all of our prayers even before we utter them, but God wants us to pray because we experience life by doing things in time. We're not omniscient nor do we know everything that we'll ever need help with since we're not like God, so one way we can interact with God is by praying. That's only redundant from God's vantage since with us that's the way we experience things and God has to at times interact/relate to us on our level.

Your opinion on the nature of "god" is noted. Would you care to substantiate any of this with evidence, given the sub-forum you're on?

I will be the first Christian to admit that I don't accept everything in the Bible as being accurate. I don't accept those areas of it that have been proven false beyond a doubt. However, it's the positive sides that still attracts me. Although God does not answer every prayer and there's still evil in the world, I still see some answered prayers, I still see some good, I've had my own supernatural experiences and people still have them today, and I can only hope that all this will lead up to a "greater good" and the end time promise mentioned in the Bible- that is, eventually there won't be any more suffering so hopefully this problem of evil will be solved by God even if I don't know why or how it started and if God is to blame, etc.

Please provide a methodology to distinguish "answered prayer" from "fortuity".

[Angel]

Angel wrote:

I will be the first Christian to admit that I don't accept everything in the Bible as being accurate.

On what basis do you discern which parts are true and which are false?

Evidence. There are parts that I can't discern either way and my point mostly spoke to these parts of the Bible, and I still accept them as being true but based on belief.

Although God does not answer every prayer and there's still evil in the world, I still see some answered prayers,...

A flipped coin will answer a prayer about half the time.

I understand the reasoning behind your statement as far as how many times a prayer is answered, but I would also factor in how the prayer is answered which if it occurs in a supernatural way then the odds of that are nothing like the normal odds of landing on either side of a quarter. I'd also factor in the nature of the prayer like specifics, like it happening on the day or time that was mentioned in the prayer, in the same way that it was asked for, etc.