Can we all just agree, right off the bat, that there is no amount of burden of proof atheism can bare to establish that it is accurate and correct? That atheism has no valid right to claim any truth claims about God, whether He does or does not exist, they simply cant make any determining claims of truth in the regard of Gods existence... And all the truth claims, and positive evidence rest on the side of Christianity (between atheism is Christianity that is)...
Can we just agree, there is no truth claims atheism can make?
Atheism truth, is nonexistent
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Clownboat
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Re: Atheism truth, is nonexistent
Post #71Right.Tart wrote:What a ridiculous thing to say...Clownboat wrote:Not an atheist, but let me try...Tart wrote: Can we all just agree, right off the bat, that there is no amount of burden of proof atheism can bare to establish that it is accurate and correct? That atheism has no valid right to claim any truth claims about God, whether He does or does not exist, they simply cant make any determining claims of truth in the regard of Gods existence... And all the truth claims, and positive evidence rest on the side of Christianity (between atheism is Christianity that is)...
Can we just agree, there is no truth claims atheism can make?
It is true that a Christian believes that all religions are false, besides their own.
It is true that a Muslim believes that all religious are false, besides their own.
It is true that if you ask a Christian and a Muslim for a list of man made religions, that every single religion, even their own would make it on the list. Not a single religion would not be included in the man made list. Therefore, according to Christians and Muslims, there are no true religions.
What more needs to be known when it comes to religions?
If Muslims say Christianity is wrong, and Christians say Muslims are wrong, Obviously these both cant be true (like you are suggesting)... That would be absurd...
So therefore, according to Christians and Muslims, there are no true religion
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
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Clownboat
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Re: Atheism truth, is nonexistent
Post #72Right.Tart wrote:What a ridiculous thing to say...Clownboat wrote:Not an atheist, but let me try...Tart wrote: Can we all just agree, right off the bat, that there is no amount of burden of proof atheism can bare to establish that it is accurate and correct? That atheism has no valid right to claim any truth claims about God, whether He does or does not exist, they simply cant make any determining claims of truth in the regard of Gods existence... And all the truth claims, and positive evidence rest on the side of Christianity (between atheism is Christianity that is)...
Can we just agree, there is no truth claims atheism can make?
It is true that a Christian believes that all religions are false, besides their own.
It is true that a Muslim believes that all religious are false, besides their own.
It is true that if you ask a Christian and a Muslim for a list of man made religions, that every single religion, even their own would make it on the list. Not a single religion would not be included in the man made list. Therefore, according to Christians and Muslims, there are no true religions.
What more needs to be known when it comes to religions?
If Muslims say Christianity is wrong, and Christians say Muslims are wrong, Obviously these both cant be true (like you are suggesting)... That would be absurd...
Therefore, if we were to ask a Christian and a Muslim to list all the false religions out there, there would not be a single religion out there that is not false.
Ask EVERY religious person for a list singularly, and all religions except their own would be false. With all this being said, what is the likelihood that any religion is actually true?
We know religions are man made, so it takes special pleading to claim that your favorite one is actually true.
If we are being honest with ourselves, it is more likely that all religious ideas were invented by men when compared to the claim that all are, except for one.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
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brunumb
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Post #73
Read the books and you will find out. But, really? Is that your considered response? Unless you've lived in a cave your entire life or rejected all reading but the Bible, you would know that there are countless novels where fictional characters have been embedded in actual history. I half expect your next response to be "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn".Tart wrote: Who's real in James Bond?
As for James Bond himself, he is largely a character built on real people.
"Fleming based his fictional creation on a number of individuals he came across during his time in the Naval Intelligence Division during the Second World War, admitting that Bond "was a compound of all the secret agents and commando types I met during the war".[2] Among those types were his brother, Peter, who had been involved in behind-the-lines operations in Norway and Greece during the war.[3] Aside from Fleming's brother, a number of others also provided some aspects of Bond's make up, including Conrad O'Brien-ffrench, Patrick Dalzel-Job and Bill "Biffy" Dunderdale." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bon ... nspiration)
Bible Jesus is most likely a character created in a similar way. It really is too much of a stretch to think that an all-powerful creator God had to clone himself as a human and go on a suicide mission in order to clean up the mess he started thousands of years earlier. I wonder. Could this actually be the first use of the 'death by cop' scenario in the history of fictional writing?
Post #74
Ok... What real people are mentioned in James Bond? You did make that claim... Right? I'll allow you to recant your claim if you wish... Just i think it is important that we say things that are actually true.brunumb wrote:Read the books and you will find out. But, really? Is that your considered response? Unless you've lived in a cave your entire life or rejected all reading but the Bible, you would know that there are countless novels where fictional characters have been embedded in actual history. I half expect your next response to be "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn".Tart wrote: Who's real in James Bond?
As for James Bond himself, he is largely a character built on real people.
"Fleming based his fictional creation on a number of individuals he came across during his time in the Naval Intelligence Division during the Second World War, admitting that Bond "was a compound of all the secret agents and commando types I met during the war".[2] Among those types were his brother, Peter, who had been involved in behind-the-lines operations in Norway and Greece during the war.[3] Aside from Fleming's brother, a number of others also provided some aspects of Bond's make up, including Conrad O'Brien-ffrench, Patrick Dalzel-Job and Bill "Biffy" Dunderdale." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bon ... nspiration)
Bible Jesus is most likely a character created in a similar way. It really is too much of a stretch to think that an all-powerful creator God had to clone himself as a human and go on a suicide mission in order to clean up the mess he started thousands of years earlier. I wonder. Could this actually be the first use of the 'death by cop' scenario in the history of fictional writing?
Last edited by Tart on Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Post #75
Sure i know that fiction is sometime based on history... Im simply saying, I have yet to see any fiction that is anywhere comparable to the historical evidence of Jesus... Kind of like you claimed James Bond was, saying there are real historical people in that story too, and providing nothing to justify that claim except "go read the novels"...Is that your considered response? Unless you've lived in a cave your entire life or rejected all reading but the Bible, you would know that there are countless novels where fictional characters have been embedded in actual history. I half expect your next response to be "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn".
Is there anyone, who can actually bring forth evidence from a fictional, or mythological character, that has comparable evidence to Jesus? Im ready to compare anyone to Jesus... Do you have anything?
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brunumb
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Post #76
[Replying to post 74 by Tart]
That's all that matters. The Jesus character appears only in the confines of the biblical narrative. Another characteristic of fiction.Sure i know that fiction is sometime based on history.
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brunumb
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Post #77
[Replying to post 74 by Tart]
Will the fact that Bond is in the service of Queen Elizabeth II for most of the books/films satisfy you? The real issue, that you have acknowledged, is that the existence of real people and places in a story is not evidence that the story is factual. You have still not provided any evidence to establish that the Bible is anything more than fictional religious propaganda. No one has, hence the heavy reliance on that great loophole, faith.[/quote]Kind of like you claimed James Bond was, saying there are real historical people in that story too, and providing nothing to justify that claim except "go read the novels"...
Post #78
Yes a quote from the novel, or other evidence, will work just fine. We should surely only make claims that are actually true. That is all i want! When people make a claim to know something, i think it is important that they should actually know those claims they are making are true.. You said there are real people in the James Bond Novels, do you have evidence?brunumb wrote: [Replying to post 74 by Tart]
Will the fact that Bond is in the service of Queen Elizabeth II for most of the books/films satisfy you? The real issue, that you have acknowledged, is that the existence of real people and places in a story is not evidence that the story is factual. You have still not provided any evidence to establish that the Bible is anything more than fictional religious propaganda. No one has, hence the heavy reliance on that great loophole, faith.Kind of like you claimed James Bond was, saying there are real historical people in that story too, and providing nothing to justify that claim except "go read the novels"...
Last edited by Tart on Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Post #79
Ok that may be sufficient for your beliefs... The offer still stands, i am willing to compare Jesus to any fictional or mythological person. And if anyone is unwilling to do that, to actually present evidence Jesus is like Spider Man (like many flat out claim) but are unwilling to actually make that claim intelligible, and compare the evidence...brunumb wrote: [Replying to post 74 by Tart]
That's all that matters. The Jesus character appears only in the confines of the biblical narrative. Another characteristic of fiction.Sure i know that fiction is sometime based on history.
Well I think Jesus is like Socrates... And im willing to substantiate that claim.
Last edited by Tart on Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tcg
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Post #80
You have already admitted this: "Sure i know that fiction is sometime based on history...". That is a direct quote from you.Tart wrote:Yes a quote from the novel will work just fine. We should surely only make claims that are actually true... Do you have one?brunumb wrote: [Replying to post 74 by Tart]
Will the fact that Bond is in the service of Queen Elizabeth II for most of the books/films satisfy you? The real issue, that you have acknowledged, is that the existence of real people and places in a story is not evidence that the story is factual. You have still not provided any evidence to establish that the Bible is anything more than fictional religious propaganda. No one has, hence the heavy reliance on that great loophole, faith.Kind of like you claimed James Bond was, saying there are real historical people in that story too, and providing nothing to justify that claim except "go read the novels"...
It appears that your back peddling here does nothing but help you dodge the deeper issues of the fact you have already admitted.
