Does Christianity Provide Meaning and Purpose?

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Diogenes
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Does Christianity Provide Meaning and Purpose?

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Post by Diogenes »

Does Christianity provide meaning and purpose? Or does it merely defer the question?

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Re: Does Christianity Provide Meaning and Purpose?

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Post by theophile »

Diogenes wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 11:11 pm
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2024 5:55 pm
Diogenes wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2024 4:06 pm Does Christianity provide meaning and purpose?
Yes.
With a one word answer you confess Christianity provides no meaning or purpose because you fail to provide one.
The only 'meaning and purpose' thus far proposed is to "follow God" or "trust God's purpose" or variants of the theme. No actual purpose is ever offered.
The OP asks "Or does it merely defer the question?" The latter appears to be the case since even the believers can come up with nothing more than "Trust God and wait for him to tell you."
I said what the purpose was in a post long ago. It is to create the conditions for life on earth and to foster life of every kind. To create a world where every single one of us can flourish and be. This purpose is clear-cut from the beginning (Genesis 1), is core to Jesus' teachings (e.g., the greatest are those who serve the least among us, love of neighbour, etc.), and comes to fruition at the end of Revelation through a new city flowing with healing and life.

Granted, popular Christianity is often terrible at living it out. Denying man-made climate change. Oppressing women. Not celebrating the diversity of human sexuality and gender identity... But the meaning and purpose remains.

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Re: Does Christianity Provide Meaning and Purpose?

Post #72

Post by Clownboat »

bjs1 wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:12 pm Yes. According to Christianity the purpose of life is to know God, experience His love, and have that love overflow to other people.

This is an objective purpose, not a subjective purpose, because the God who created human beings designed people for this purpose.
Your statement is false demonstrated by all the humans that fail at your claimed purpose they were supposedly designed to do. I know well about your preferred god concept and it is not accepted to be as incapable as you make it out to be.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Does Christianity Provide Meaning and Purpose?

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Post by Clownboat »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 4:14 am Obviously, there wouldn't be any Christians or believers of any religion if the believers didn't feel it had meaning or purpose.
What is obvious is that indoctrination is being ignored. Something I'm sure this poster notices in other religions that exist on other locations on this planet. Why ignore this mechanism?

For example, a parent can indoctrinate their child to believe that they wont live long on this planet if they don't obey them. (Eph 6:1)
Once this is accepted, it's not hard for parents to create religious children that want to live a long healthy life to then go to a paradise for eternity to live with their loved ones.

I personally believe that religions survive first via indoctrination (which explains religion by geography on this planet). Threats and promises about after death are also a factor, but first indoctrination.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Does Christianity Provide Meaning and Purpose?

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Post by SiNcE_1985 »

Clownboat wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 10:22 am
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 4:14 am Obviously, there wouldn't be any Christians or believers of any religion if the believers didn't feel it had meaning or purpose.
What is obvious is that indoctrination is being ignored. Something I'm sure this poster notices in other religions that exist on other locations on this planet. Why ignore this mechanism?

For example, a parent can indoctrinate their child to believe that they wont live long on this planet if they don't obey them. (Eph 6:1)
Once this is accepted, it's not hard for parents to create religious children that want to live a long healthy life to then go to a paradise for eternity to live with their loved ones.

I personally believe that religions survive first via indoctrination (which explains religion by geography on this planet). Threats and promises about after death are also a factor, but first indoctrination.
The question is whether or not Christianity has meaning/purpose.

Nothing you said addressed the question..just an opinion about parenting and indoctrination which doesn't even touch the question.
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Re: Does Christianity Provide Meaning and Purpose?

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Post by bjs1 »

Diogenes wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:35 pm
bjs1 wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:12 pm
Diogenes wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2024 4:06 pm Does Christianity provide meaning and purpose? Or does it merely defer the question?
Yes. According to Christianity the purpose of life is to know God, experience His love, and have that love overflow to other people.

This is an objective purpose, not a subjective purpose, because the God who created human beings designed people for this purpose.

Technically, Christianity reveals this purpose as opposed to providing it.
You have, perhaps inadvertently, made the case for "merely deferring the question."
This should be self evident, but just in case:
When you say the purpose is to "know God" you merely defer the question to that speculative time when you may meet this god. In other words you have said nothing at all about meaning or purpose. You have merely claimed "God will show" or "God IS the...."

I have not deferred the question. This is not a speculative time to meet God in the future. This is an active purpose designed into human nature. At no point have I said, “God will show you.” Rather, I have described a purpose to immediately pursue.

Nor have I said, “God IS the…” though I grant that this is at least closer to the truth. If we are intentionally created by an intelligent Being, then it is reasonable to expect that our purpose is in some way connected to that Being.

I have described a purpose that is inherent to our nature which all people were created to actively seek out in the present.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
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Re: Does Christianity Provide Meaning and Purpose?

Post #76

Post by bjs1 »

Clownboat wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 10:04 am
bjs1 wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:12 pm Yes. According to Christianity the purpose of life is to know God, experience His love, and have that love overflow to other people.

This is an objective purpose, not a subjective purpose, because the God who created human beings designed people for this purpose.
Your statement is false demonstrated by all the humans that fail at your claimed purpose they were supposedly designed to do. I know well about your preferred god concept and it is not accepted to be as incapable as you make it out to be.
The fact that many humans fail at a purpose does not make the purpose false. There a many purposes that some people may fail at, but that does not invalidate the purpose itself. A smoker may enter a program with the purpose to stop smoking but fail to accomplish that purpose. This says nothing about the purpose itself. Nor would the purpose of a program to stop smoking be invalidated if the smoker never attempted to quit.

I do not know what you mean by being “incapable.” Was this a typo? (I have made more than my fair share of them.) Did you mean “inescapable”? If so, I never claimed the purpose was inescapable. If you meant something else you will have to explain your meaning.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
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Re: Does Christianity Provide Meaning and Purpose?

Post #77

Post by Diogenes »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2024 4:14 am
Diogenes wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 11:11 pm
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2024 5:55 pm
Diogenes wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2024 4:06 pm Does Christianity provide meaning and purpose?
Yes.
Diogenes: "With a one word answer you confess Christianity provides no meaning or purpose because you fail to provide one".


And that simple "yes" was more than the question deserved.

Obviously, there wouldn't be any Christians or believers of any religion, if the believers didn't feel it had meaning or purpose.

So why even ask the question?

Because neither you, nor any of those 'believers' answered it.

You are conflating two concepts. WHETHER something has meaning for someone is a question entirely separate from a description of WHAT that meaning is. You claim there is meaning for some. I do not doubt it. Now, please, tell me what that meaning IS?

"To follow God because I think he is God" is a circular response and not in the least descriptive.
Do you have anything more than "Trust and Obey?" ;)


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Re: Does Christianity Provide Meaning and Purpose?

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Post by SiNcE_1985 »

Diogenes wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:35 pm Because neither you, nor any of those 'believers' answered it.

You are conflating two concepts. WHETHER something has meaning for someone is a question entirely separate from a description of WHAT that meaning is. You claim there is meaning for some. I do not doubt it. Now, please, tell me what that meaning IS?
Then perhaps that should been the follow-up question..

"Does Christianity have purpose? If so, what is the purpose".
"To follow God because I think he is God" is a circular response and not in the least descriptive.
Do you have anything more than "Trust and Obey?" ;)
Hmm. Let me answer your question, with a question.

Are you a law abiding citizen? Yes or no?
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Re: Does Christianity Provide Meaning and Purpose?

Post #79

Post by SiNcE_1985 »

Diogenes wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2024 4:06 pm Does Christianity provide meaning and purpose? Or does it merely defer the question?
Oh, and btw..

A few weeks ago, somehow or another, I stumbled across the name "Diogenes" in my studies..and when I saw the name, I immediately recognized the name as the same name as one of the members of this forum...you.

Upon further research, I became astonished...I had never heard of dude before, but Greek philosopher Diogenes seemed like a cool, funny dude.

He became one of the top 5 people in history that I would have liked to have met.

Interesting fella. :approve:
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Re: Does Christianity Provide Meaning and Purpose?

Post #80

Post by Diogenes »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2024 8:38 pm Hmm. Let me answer your question, with a question.

Are you a law abiding citizen? Yes or no?
This, obviously, is not responsive. Again, the failure to offer an answer to the question of what meaning or purpose 'God' provides admits there is no purpose.
However, your question about "law abiding citizens" suggests something I agree with, that having a 'god' has a very definite purpose for societies, cultures. That purpose is to produce "law abiding citizens." Whether 'he' is the 'Great White Father' or Odin, or the 'God of Abraham,' the purpose for inventing a god is to enforce societal norms, rules, laws, morals. The invention of a god unites the culture.

The atheist, the naturalist, along with anyone with common sense understand why we should 'abide by the law.' No 'god' is necessary to explain why we should cooperate, get along peacefully. And THAT is what law is about, helping us get along and cooperate. No invented Spirit in the Sky is necessary to understand the value of cooperation. The 'god' that is invented is strictly for enforcement.
* * *
Yes, Diogenes was quite a dude. He looked for truth, for honesty rather than for political power, loyalty to the State, or for wealth and power.
That's part of the problem today. People care more for their ideologies than for the truth. It reminds me of my favorite Coleridge quote.
He who begins by loving Christianity more than Truth, will proceed by loving his sect or church better than Christianity, and end in loving himself better than all.

Seek Truth, not God

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