Why do you believe in God?

[McCulloch]

The arguments for believing that there is a God can be categorized as follows:

1. Four Classical Arguments
2. The Argument from First Cause
   1. Everything must have a cause
   2. Causal Chains cannot go on forever
   3. Therefore there must be a first cause, and that is God.
3. The Argument from Design
   1. Something in the universe or the universe itself seems to be designed
   2. Therefore a designer must exist and that is God
4. The Argument from the Anthropic Principle
   1. The universal constants are fine tuned for the existence of humans.
   2. Therefore there must have been a God to fine tune the universe for our existence
5. The Ontological Argument
   1. God is a being than which nothing greater can be conceived.
   2. Assume that God does not exist.
   3. An existent God is a being greater than a non-existent one
   4. If God did not exist, then we could conceive of a being greater than God -- A God that exists.
   5. This is a contradiction, therefore (2) must be false and God exists
   Courtesy of Saint Anselm.

1. Four Subjective Arguments
2. The Argument from Coincidence
   1. There have been some remarkable coincidences.
   2. There must be a reason for those coincidences.
   3. That reason is God.
3. The Argument from Prophecy
   1. A holy book makes prophesies.
   2. A holy book or the adherents of it report that those prophesies have come true.
   3. Therefore whatever else is in the book, such as the claim that God exists must be true.
4. The Argument from Subjectivity and Faith
   1. People feel sure that God exists.
   2. Therefore God exists.
5. The Argument from Divine Interventions, Miracles and such
   1. A miracle occurs, perhaps as a response to prayer.
   2. God exists as evidenced by the divine intervention

1. Four Psycho-Mathematical Arguments
2. The Argument from Redefinition
   1. God is Love or Goodness or some other such thing.
   2. Love, goodness or whatever, clearly exists.
   3. Therefore God exists.
3. The Argument from Cognitive Tendency
   1. Some cognitive tendencies suggest the existence of an all-powerful agent.
   2. God must be that all-powerful agent
4. The Universality Argument and Morality
   1. Across cultures, the similarities in moral values are quite apparent.
   2. They must come from God
5. The Gambling Argument
   1. We can choose to believe or not in God.
   2. If we choose wrongly then negative consequences of choosing to disbelieve are greater than the negative consequences of choosing to believe.
   3. Therefore it is prudent to believe.

The classifications and much of the synopses are from John Allen Paulos, Professor of Mathematics at Temple University, in his book Irreligion, A Mathematician Explains Why the Arguments for God Just Don't Add Up As fallacious as these might seem, these seriously are the arguments put forth by philosophers, theologians, saints, apologists and preachers.

These are the arguments for God. There are numerous subtle variations on them, but essentially, as far as I can tell those who claim that God exists do so based on one or more of these arguments and nothing else.

Why should I believe that there is a God? What are your reasons? Are any of these reasons valid? If your reasons do not fall into any of the above groupings, please let us know why you believe. If you believe for a combination of these reasons, select the strongest one and explain why.

[olavisjo]

The Bible does not make sense to you, but why does it make so much sense to so many others?

Amish
Anabaptism
Assemblies of God
...
...
United Church of Christ

Are you referring to these people? They have made "sense" of it too? Are you sure about that?

BTW - This was a REAL modest list. I'm sure everyone here would agree.

I am sure they have made some sense of the Bible, why not, but none of us is free of all error.

[olavisjo]

The Bible does not make sense to you, but why does it make so much sense to so many others? Are you missing something or do they so desperately want to believe that, they have deluded themselves into thinking there is something there that is just not there.

Yes - they are deluding themselves. They see something that brings meaning and purpose to their lives and hold onto it for that reason. Just as others use the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita.

You have a problem with meaning and purpose?

So, I can understand your frustration with the Bible and I used to be just like you before I deluded myself into believing it.

Realising it is a delusion is the first step. Even though delusory it can still bring meaning and purpose.

The value in understanding its nature as delusion leads to understanding and acceptance of other's delusions.

Have you ever known anyone who was free of all delusions? If a person knows their belief is a delusion, how can they continue to believe it?

There are at least two possibilities, [strike]either[/strike] God is not visible, or you are blind.

And this is a false dilemma.

There, no longer a false dilemma.

To me God is visible in the things that he does for me and others, and he is visible in the natural world around me. God is more than a comfort to me, he is a real presence just like your real friends.

I am happy that you find such comfort in your belief...that is its purpose.

Yes, God made it to be like that.

Edit typo.

[JoeyKnothead]

olavisjo wrote:
There, no longer a false dilemma.

(See the strikeout in that section)

Short, sweet, and to the point, one of the best rebuttals I've seen anywhere. Please read his rebuttals right before this post.

I may disagree with my religious friends, and my blood has been known to boil, but I honestly think humor and wit can bring us all together.

I'm sorry if this is a spam post, but I couldn't help myself.

[OnceConvinced]

Took me over 30 years before I realised I had been fooled. God allowed me to live over 30 years of my life believing I had a relationship with him and that I was filled with the Holy Spirit.

How can you say that with such a straight face?

I can say it with a straight faith because it's the truth. (If we are to assume that God exists). What are you insinuating?

[olavisjo]

Took me over 30 years before I realised I had been fooled. God allowed me to live over 30 years of my life believing I had a relationship with him and that I was filled with the Holy Spirit.

How can you say that with such a straight face?

I can say it with a straight faith because it's the truth. (If we are to assume that God exists). What are you insinuating?

It is just your avatar face, not faith.
And I assume you wrote about God as if he was real, to be humorous?

[OnceConvinced]

You are right, he is not quite like my real friends, he is more dependable. When random actions happen far more than probability would allow, they are no longer random.

I guess your the sort of person who does not trust people. You're the sort of person who would say "If you want something done right, do it yourself"?

Took me over 30 years before I realised I had been fooled. God allowed me to live over 30 years of my life believing I had a relationship with him and that I was filled with the Holy Spirit.

How can you say that with such a straight face?

I can say it with a straight faith because it's the truth. (If we are to assume that God exists). What are you insinuating?

It is just your avatar face, not faith.
And I assume you wrote about God as if he was real, to be humorous?

I had a very strong faith as a Christian. Whether you want to believe that or not it's true. I did not play at being a Christian, I lived it. I beleived without a doubt I had a relationship with God.

It seems my point has washed completely over your head. No I was not trying to be humourous. One of the skills of debate is to be able to look at other people's point of view and argue from their perspective. If God exists and I was never a true Christian, then he allowed me to be fooled for 30+ years. So how can you be so sure he's not doing the same for you?

[olavisjo]

You are right, he is not quite like my real friends, he is more dependable. When random actions happen far more than probability would allow, they are no longer random.

I guess your the sort of person who does not trust people. You're the sort of person who would say "If you want something done right, do it yourself"?

If I want something done right I will turn it over to God. And definitely not trust myself.

I had a very strong faith as a Christian. Whether you want to believe that or not it's true. I did not play at being a Christian, I lived it. I believed without a doubt I had a relationship with God.

It seems my point has washed completely over your head. No I was not trying to be humorous. One of the skills of debate is to be able to look at other people's point of view and argue from their perspective. If God exists and I was never a true Christian, then he allowed me to be fooled for 30+ years. So how can you be so sure he's not doing the same for you?

There may be some logic there, but it is a bit twisted. You almost sound like you believe that there is a God but you just don't want any part of him. If you want to talk about how God let you down, I would welcome a PM.
As for me, if God exists, I am his to do with as he wills, if it humors him to 'fool' me then so be it.

Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.

[catholic crusader]

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In fact it's probably more important to be skeptical of your own claims than any body elses.

Since you claim to not know whether dead bodies come back to life or not, are you willing to accept a modern claim that a group leader died and came back to life?

Would you ask for evidence before believing such a tale? Would stories told by his friends and supporters be adequate "proof" for you to accept the modern "resurrection"?

Zeitgeist

First I want to point out the difference between a myth and a lie.

A lie is when some one is not telling the truth.

A myth is a lyrical ritual, a story. The purpose of a myth is to convey deep spiritual truths.

For example the myth of the minotaur. Is a myth about rencarnation. The minotaur is symbolic of half man half beast. It's about having incanations as both human and animal. The maze is about us being lost in physical existence unable to find our way back out.

That is the spiritual truths encoded into the minotaur myth.

You are claiming christ is a myth. Then what is the deep spiritual meanings he is to convey?

According to this movie. Christ is an astrological myth. So if this is true then claims of a resurection are just mythical elements. Which means they are not to be interpreted literaly. So a literal resurection is a metaphor for something else.

[Zzyzx]

.

According to this movie. Christ is an astrological myth. So if this is true then claims of a resurection are just mythical elements. Which means they are not to be interpreted literaly. So a literal resurection is a metaphor for something else.

I have avoided movies since the 1950s because I prefer to deal with the real world rather than fiction and opinion (the same is true of television).

I do not challenge the proposition that Christ is a myth.

If Christ is a myth, religionists have constructed tales motivated by human agendas. We have no way of determining the actual reasons behind construction of the myth -- though we can speculate that they were related to promotion of a new religion in competition with existing religions of the era (and in need of product differentiation).

[twobitsmedia]

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If Christ is a myth,

What a safe place...If, If, If IF.....